681 – How To Tune Your WordPress Website For Maximum ROI

Podcast: Download (Duration: 30:54 — 28.4MB)

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Justin Meadows

In the podcast:

01:44 – Crucial points of website performance
05:08 – The all-important trust factor
07:44 – Are you mobile responsive?
09:08 – What caching is and does
11:21 – The challenges of design translation
13:06 – Dealing with updates
15:03 – The tools of site testing
18:41 – A site makeover case study
23:00 – Google then and now
26:58 – Some takeaways to part on
28:24 – Staying in control

Keep those conversions coming with help from James

Transcription:

James: James Schramko here. Welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. This is Episode 681. We’ll be talking about how to tune up your WordPress website. And for that, I’ve brought none other than Justin Meadows. Good day, mate.

Justin: Good day, James, how are you going?

James: Good, thank you. It’s always good to have a chat. And I’ve seen you’ve had some terrific growth in your business, which is called TunedWP.com. Why don’t you share with us what you’ve been doing over at that website?

Justin: Yeah, sure. So we’ve been helping out people with their WordPress websites. And the main thing we focus on is helping improve the performance of their website. So, looking at a range of different areas that we can work on to sort of plug the leaks and make sure that they’re not losing money when they’re spending money on ads and SEO and other marketing to send people to that website. We want to make sure that their website is performing as good as possible at helping those visitors come to the website and and make sure they’re in the right place and turn into buying customers.

Crucial points of website performance

James: So when you say performing, some things come to mind when you say that. Obviously some of the obvious ones, and I’ve just been through this phase with my own website, which is coincidentally on WordPress, like we’ve just updated the design, we’ve updated the images, and we’ve updated the words on the site. And then the next stage for my team, and I’m sure they’re very excited about this, is they have to start optimizing the speed. And we’ve also been changing some of the things that relate to usability, such as navigation menu, options, the placement of some elements on the page. And also, we’re tuning the optimization of the pathways through the site, so what elements appear on things like the sidebar. I noticed the most viewed posts on our entire website are also the ones recommended in the sidebar widget. So there’s a lot that can be gleaned from analytics. Am I on track here, or was there a few elements that you’re looking at that you particularly zoom in on? And I imagine speed is one of them, and I’d love you to tell us why that is the case.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. So I think you covered quite a few of them there. There’s eight different things we look at, the main sort of areas of the website that we assess, when we do audits of people’s websites, or when we’re thinking about how we can improve it. And one of them is speed, so making sure that the website does load fast is critically important. And it’s becoming more and more important. As people are expecting websites to be able to load fast, people have fast connections, they’re expecting things to happen quickly. And people are on mobile devices. And we see Google putting a lot of emphasis on this as well. So Google want to make sure that everyone’s websites are loading really fast, and loading really fast on mobile devices and that sort of thing. So that’s one of the things we look at.

Another one is making sure that the website is going to rank well in Google, and also it gets shared and performs well on social media when it is shared. So making sure that when you do share it to social media, it looks really good, you have good titles for your pages, and that sort of thing. And in Google, how it displays when it’s ranking increases the amount of people who are going to click on it.

And also, so there’s one little ninja tip for the SEO that’s working quite well at the moment. And that’s making the most of structured data mock up. So that’s where you tell Google a bit more information about the page and the types of content that’s on the page. And that helps Google to grab those rich snippets and bits of extra information that they’re now adding into the results. So when you do a search, quite often Google will give you the exact answer to the question that you’ve asked, or they’ll provide a bit of additional information underneath your website’s listing about whether you’re open or not, or how far it is to your shop, or those sort of bits of extra details.

So that’s certainly one thing that is important, that you’re found well, and then when you are found, your website loads fast, and you give people a good experience as they’re checking out your website for the first time, they don’t go back to Google and find a website that loads faster.

James: Yeah, and that it works on the device they’re on, which is critically important. And you’ve seen a huge change in that over the years. In fact, you and I go way back, we’ve been hanging out together for a long time, especially through the SEO era. That’s an element that I think some websites are not really considering and getting great results with. I’m thankful that we get great SEO search traffic for SuperFastBusiness. And that’s why we transcribe our episodes, and work a little bit on the titles as well.

The all-important trust factor

Now, I imagine a lot of the people coming to you do not have a small team like me, and they need someone who they can trust because trust seems to be a huge factor when it comes to development. You hear a lot of horror stories, people trying to find freelancers, not getting the work they promised or getting it back and it needs constant changes, or the person just flakes on them completely. Or then they need something else, and then that person is no longer available. So you’ve got that consistency of supply. How big is your team these days?

Justin: We’ve got 15 people in the team at the moment. And so we are able to make sure that we give quick responses to any issues or requests and changes that people need from us or need us to do or to fix up on their website. We have our support desk run 24 hours Monday to Friday, and we have a one-hour response time during that time. With a larger team, we’ve got different skill sets, so we can hand things to different people for different sorts of tasks and make sure that we’ve got experts in all different areas. So that definitely makes a difference.

And I’ve heard plenty of horror stories of people who’ve come to us and they’ve just been really let down, there’s some really shonky operators out there, so trust is a massive issue. And actually, trust is one of the factors that we look at on a website, because it’s not just with WordPress developers. Just on the internet in general, there is a bit of a trust barrier that you need to overcome when you’re selling something on the internet, because people are always just wary of, is this a scam? Is this business legitimate, that I’m trying to buy something from, or the services that I’m using?

So you really want to make sure on your website that you reassure them that you are a legitimate business, that you have got results for people, that there are real people out there who can sort of testify to the types of work that you do. So including testimonials, having some authority logos or maybe media appearances that you’ve been on, or qualifications or associations you’re a part of; doing things like having your actual face on there and show that there’s a real person that’s behind this business, even if it’s not the owner of the business, it might be some of the team that’s working for the business.

So, doing things like that, providing helpful content, really helps build trust with the website visitors. So we find that that’s a very important thing. And I know, from my personal experience, we did a redesign of our website recently, and I did heat map tracking, to see what people were clicking on the new design to get a bit of feedback as to how it’s going. And the most clicked-on things were our testimonials. So people were going through them and reading them. And so it really does make a big difference.

James: Yeah, that’s a huge one. So you’ve mentioned a couple of the eight things that you’re looking for – trust is one of them; speed is one of them; usability. What other things might we be considering if we want to tune up our website?

Are you mobile responsive?

Justin: Yeah, so usability in particular, having that mobile responsiveness. One thing I just want to touch on there, and this is another thing that’s fairly recent, is that Google have really been going hard and pushing hard for people to improve the mobile responsiveness of their website. I mean, they introduced changes to their ranking algorithm many years ago. But now they’re sort of pushing it further and further. They really want people to be using CDNs, so content delivery networks, to make them load fast. And they’re pushing people to use AMP. So now if you do a page speed test, most websites will get a really bad score on the mobile version, simply because they’re not using AMP. Google have partnered with a few other organizations to develop the AMP platform, and Google cache the AMP versions of your website on their cache. That is just a simplified code version of your website. So it loads super fast, and it gets cached in Google’s caching system. So it really does load fast.

But there are some drawbacks to that. Because it is a simplified code, you can’t use all of the same functionality, and quite often, the design can’t look exactly the same as your desktop website. But it does get you great results in terms of speed and the user experience. And that does flow on to your SEO results as well. Because Google want to show those kind of websites, they will rank those kind of websites higher in searches that are done from mobile devices.

What caching is and does

James: And it probably is worth mentioning what cache actually means. It’s not somewhere where you drop your kids off to school for the day, right?

Justin: Yeah, yeah. So essentially, what that is, is that it’s data centers. So there’ll be warehouses of big computers that are storing copies of people’s websites, and they are hooked up to deliver these copies of your website super quickly to the people in that city. So you might have your website hosted in Sydney, but there will be a cached version, a copy of that website’s pages, that’s in, say, London. And so if someone’s doing a search in London, they’ll get access to that cached version. And so that loads really fast. And it’s something that we encounter a lot.

There’s a few different layers of cache. You can have them on the server; they’re also on your browser itself. When you look at a website, most of the files that you look at on that web page gets saved onto your computer. So the next time you go to that web page, you’re actually loading most of the website’s files from your computer itself. So it just speeds up how that works. It causes a lot of issues in my industry, because when we make changes to your website, sometimes it doesn’t reflect on your computer or on the cached copy that’s in your nearest city. So there’s confusion caused, and you need to clear caches before everyone can see how it really is.

James: Yes, we have that conversation sometimes with my own developer, where they’ve made a change, and I can’t see it unless I flush the cache on my browser, and then I can see it. And of course, some customers will see a mash up. It’s kind of like, half the old stuff and bits of the new one. And they say, oh, there’s an error, and they report it. The thing I love about my clients is they’re very quick to point out things on my site that need fixing. I’m thankful for that. It’s kind of like I’ve outsourced my usability team – they’ll let me know anytime something’s not quite right, they’re missing a letter on a word, or if it doesn’t load in a particular browser. There was one guy using a browser called Ubuntu, or not even sure how you pronounce it. But I looked up in the analytics, and he was the only one. And like, basically, unless you’re using Chrome, or Safari, there was a long distance to them. You know, Firefox or even Explorer. But Ubuntu or something like that, some other one I’d never heard of. So I guess it’s a matter of waiting. Usability for different types of users.

The challenges of design translation

When you are developing, do you preference a particular device or size first and then cascade through in a particular order?

Justin: No, we generally do the desktop designs, but we’re always considering how that’s going to work on mobile when we’re doing that. So we keep our desktop designs very simple so it’s easy to translate them into a mobile screen size. And it’s certainly something that we do make sure when we’re building a site, that it’s going to look good on a range of different screen sizes. And sometimes we do some work with other agencies that bring their designs to us, or our clients sometimes bring designs to us. And the biggest problem that we come across with those designs is quite often, some designers haven’t considered how these elements of the website are going to look when you rearrange them on a smaller screen size. And even just going from desktop to laptop can sometimes cause some issues, if the design is not really thought through in that way. And then obviously, going from tablet to mobile, you run into issues there as well.

James: There are other things too, I found, translating designs through to the website development. It’s much like a building, right, where the designer’s a bit like the architect translating your vision, and then you take it to a builder to get a quote. And then the builder always wants to quote like, five times more than the budget you told the designer. Some designers like to use a lot of different post-to-page templates, that’s one way to really get the price of a development up, is to make it very complex. So I would definitely just want to throw my hat in the ring there and say, you know, ask the designer to keep the page and post types fairly simple so they’re easy to actually build. Because, as you know, there’s often updates and changes and plugin conflicts and things don’t stay the same, which is why you want to have a good relationship with the developer.

Dealing with updates

Can you just comment on that, the nature of the change of updates when things get pushed through from WordPress, or when there’s a plugin security issue, or a couple of plugins don’t talk to each other very well? Do you encounter that sort of stuff, and, you know, is that part of your service?

Justin: It is, yes. So for our monthly service, we have an unlimited support service where we will make whatever changes you want, any minor changes that don’t take us very long to do. We just do them. So that’s all included. But also, once a month, we go through the site and we check everything. We do the security checks on the site, we run a scan, just to make sure that everything’s all secure. And we update the software. So when we do that, we generally know, just from experience, some of the plugins and stuff that are likely to cause issues. And we also sort of keep up to date, usually. When there are those sort of issues out there, we get the heads-up that you know, there’s problems with this theme update, so don’t do it just yet, wait for the plugins to update as well so they’re compatible or something like that. So we might just hold off on them, if they’re not important security ones. But then other times, you’ll get, a vulnerability has been found in this type of theme or this type of plugin. So you need to update all the security, update all the plugins immediately for security purposes, and patch that vulnerability. So we always just jump in, we don’t wait for the next month of maintenance runs, we just update that straightaway.

Occasionally, you do encounter problems. And we always make sure that we check how the site’s displaying before we touch it, so we make sure, yep, okay, everything’s looking good. Then we take a backup, and then we start doing the updates. So that’s the third step. And then if there is a problem, we can easily just load back up that backup that we took, and then the site goes back to how it was before we touched it. If we need to then create a copy of the site to test it out, we might do that. Or we might just figure out what went wrong and fix the problem, or wait for that plugin to get its next update that fixes that compatibility issue.

The tools of site testing

James: Right. So what are some ways we can actually test our site? You mentioned before, you do an audit? That sounds like one way that makes a lot of sense. Are there some tools that you would recommend people can go and plug their site into to just get a sense of how it’s performing? I think you mentioned Google are pretty keen on this too. I know I’ve seen something to that effect in my Webmaster Tools or whatever they call it these days, where they check it. But what are your favorite tools?

Justin: So there’s quite a few and different tools for different sorts of things. So using Google Search Console gives you alerts and that sort of thing, if there are any issues that occur in some of the way your pages are structured, or you might make a new page and something’s wrong with it or have something else going on. So it’s definitely worth submitting your site to Google Search Console just in case, things come up later on down the track. But you can submit your site, Google have a mobile-friendly tester. And we’re finding that that is again, becoming more, they’re stricter and stricter with it. So they’re throwing back a lot of issues that normally wouldn’t be considered issues. And they’re probably not big issues. But Google are now getting super sensitive on all of these things.

There’s Google’s Page Speed Test. So that’s just testing the speed alone. Google have another test site called web.dev. And that gives you an overview of a range of different aspects of your website from its SEO, and also accessibility and speed. So it looks at a few different things there. They have their AMP tester to see if you’re using that AMP framework. Another good one, especially for speed, that we use a lot is GTmetrix. I still find that really is the best speed-testing tool, because Google are a bit super sensitive on the mobile stuff, and sometimes give you kind of vague feedback. GTmetrix can be quite good. But it’s also important with GTmetrix to choose an appropriate testing location, so if most of your market is in Australia, there’s no point testing it from a Canadian server. So you should really be testing it where the people are, and where your server is located and that sort of thing. But I think they’re sort of the main ones for the performance of your website. Yeah, definitely Google has a lot of good testing sites out now.

James: What sort of changes did you experience when you changed your own website? Because having just gone through that with my own website, I was looking at my dashboard today, and in the month that we’re recording this, I’ve had a really good month. A lot of the metrics I wanted to improve have improved, especially the conversions, which is very important. Things like bounce rate, and time on page and search results are all improving now. And I think once we start dialing it up, I’d expect some change. But I’m interested in your transformation. And also, give me a couple of examples of people who you’ve worked with. You don’t have to name them if you don’t want, but you’re certainly welcome to. Just give me an idea of what we can expect if we bother to tune our website.

Justin: Yeah, sure. So my site is probably not a great example because it was a new brand. TunedWP is is a new brand for our business that’s focused on this service in particular, and dealing directly with business owners on helping them with their website. My previous brand was Evergreen Profit. We’ve had the Evergreen Profits, Profit.

James: Here we go again. It’s funny, like, SuperFastBusiness has got a rich tapestry of Evergreen Profit and Evergreen Profits. I can never remember which one’s which so I’m always thankful to both you and to Joe and Matt for all the commission’s that get sent my way. Probably one of you is getting more credit than the other should. It’s always a lot of fun. I mean, it’s very distinguishable, TunedWP.com. It says what it is. It’s very WordPress-focused, by the sound of it.

A site makeover case study

So okay, new brand. Let’s skip that one, then. Let’s talk about a couple of clients you’ve worked with. I want to know, what is a reasonable expectation? Because we might be listening to this thinking, Okay, I get it. I could plug my website into a few tools. They might tell me my site’s a bit slow. It doesn’t look quite right in the mobile. But is it really worth fixing?

Justin: Yeah, so one example that springs to mind, and I’m sure that Patrik doesn’t mind me giving a shout out. And so his site is one that was a very stark contrast and a great example. He’s probably listening to the podcast, or will be when it’s out there. So hey, Patrik.

James: Good day, Patrik.

Justin: So he was doing really all the right sort of things, and he was publishing regular content. He was doing the right things from an SEO point of view, and getting that content out there, sharing it. He was getting in front of a large audience. He’s based in Melbourne, but he was reaching a very large international audience. And there was a lot of people coming to his website, but they just weren’t converting. He wasn’t getting any phone calls and stuff. It was mainly, it’s a hotline service, so that’s the main sort of thing. And he was just really sort of stressed out. He was like, you know, I’m putting in all this effort, and it’s not working. So we had a look at his site, along with the fabulously talented Greg Merrilees.

James: Greg Merrilees.

Justin: Yup.

James: He wouldn’t be listening to this podcast.

Justin: Probably not.

James: He’s definitely not the number one SuperFastBusiness fan out there. In all seriousness, Greg Merrilees is an absolute legend. He is the designer, I’m proud to say, of the SuperFastBusiness.com logo, website, of the SilverCircle site. You know, he’s just amazing and talented, so I always love to give him a big shout out, studio1design.com. We’re probably due to get him on the show at some point as well. But I’m really blessed to have a great designer, and to have such talented people in my network like you, Justin with WordPress development. You know, Patrik, who I also am fortunate enough to coach, has got all the tools at his disposal. So what happened?

Justin: Yeah, so we gave the site a facelift, and we rebuilt it. And it made a huge difference to him. The number of people coming to the site increased, because there was a number of issues on the site that were holding back his SEO. So just by clearing those away and improving the user experience, that did help get more effect out of the SEO effort that he was putting in with all of his content creation.

He’s consistently been putting out the content – we’ve been helping him make that easier for him with our services. He creates the first bit of content, hands that over to us, we publish it for him and share it. So we’ve made that process easier for him. But also, the people who are coming to the site are converting more. The problem that he has at the moment isn’t converting them, it’s how he deals with the demand that he’s got. He’s got to hire more staff and work out how he can service all these customers that are coming to him. So it’s not all been the website, but there was definitely a big difference in the number of leads that he was getting from the website, when we did improve the performance of his website.

James: I like that sort of result. And it’s something we hear about a fair bit, actually, where the fulcrum swings from trying to get customers, you know, traffic, traffic, traffic, marketing, marketing, we hear a lot about that. But then the capacity to deliver is the other side of the equation. Okay, you’ve got an offer. It’s actually converting. Oh my God, now what? Patrik is in such a specialized field as well, it is hard for him to scale that side. But having the confidence to know that he can hire because his website’s performing is really a strong theme here.

Your website is your online storefront. It’s open 24/7, and it is a silent salesperson that is set up correctly, doing its job. And for example, SuperFastBusiness is always doing its job. There is no sales people in my business. We don’t hire a salesperson, the website is our machine. We have amazing support. You know, I’ve talked about this a lot. We have seven-day-a-week support. It’s something I’m passionate about. Even though we’re only a small business, we have great support. We have fantastic product. And the website does its job. We don’t need sales people. So yeah, if you’re got sales people and you want to get your website doing more of the selling, then tune it up, get it loading faster. People click away from the page if it doesn’t load quickly enough. Google want to reward it.

Google then and now

By the way, while we’re on that, I think this is fascinating, because when I came online in mid 2000, 2005 or so, I started, Google wasn’t the only player but it was starting to be pretty dominant. Where would you say it is now?

Justin: Yeah, I actually haven’t looked at the stats for a while. But yeah, I do remember back in the day, in the US in particular, it was only like 60, maybe 70% of the market share for the search engines.

James: Only. It feels like even less than that when I started.

Justin: Yeah.

James: We used to have MSN and Yahoo. But then, you know, we don’t hear anything about Yahoo, I think that’s finished. And then MSN changed to Bing. But we never say we’re going to Bing something.

Justin: No.

James: Google has just become the King Kong. And it’s the one to optimize for, and it’s important. But the other thing to optimize for is a human being, because that’s what Google’s trying to do. And having run an SEO business for seven years, I can tell you, the name of the game was not getting tricky, fancy backlinks from forum footers. It was about giving Google what they want, a really fantastic result that’s relevant to the person searching, that they’re happy with, that gets them using Google, because Google want to sell ads on that platform. So that’s why we talk about Google and optimizing for Google.

Justin: Yeah. And like, Google are a really smart bunch of people, they spend a lot of time hiring the best minds, and thinking about how to deliver the best experience to people on the internet so that they can get more ad clicks. But you know, that’s what their goal is. And so when they’re telling you, right, everyone out there needs to improve their mobile experience on their websites, then you really should be listening to that. And it’s worth sort of keeping an eye out and saying what it is that they’re focusing on and pay attention to what they’re saying we should be doing. Because quite often, what they do is they’ll release these sort of things and say, this is where we want things to go. And then two years down the track, you can’t think of doing it any other way. Like, they really do push things in that direction, if that’s how they want it. And with HTTPS in particular. So that’s the security encryption, that almost all websites have. In fact, it really stands out to me when a website doesn’t have HTTPS, and you start to go, Oh, is this website secure?

James: Well, that’s like, I was looking at some resumes for a client of mine in SilverCircle who’s hiring a senior role. And I went to one of the sites that this guy runs, and it immediately is a red flag. I’m like, you know what? They’re definitely not up with the times. And I don’t trust this. There’s something not right.

Justin: That has come about because of Google pushing that.

James: They said they’d reward it, didn’t they, they’d reward secure sites.

Justin: Exactly. They said, We want the internet to use encryption for everything. And a lot of people were very critical of it, saying that, and rightly so, that a lot of websites don’t actually need it, because they’re not sending sensitive data anywhere, so they don’t really need to be encrypted. But because of Google saying, I don’t care, we think that all websites should have it, all websites have adopted it. And now it’s standard practice. And so when Google’s pushing in those sort of things, you really need to be paying attention to it and staying ahead of the curve with those sort of things. There’s no point trying to fight it.

James: Yeah. I like that they give a bit of notice, too.

It always makes me smile a bit when, you know, we say Google are smartest people. And just to sort of highlight how difficult the online market can be, I think of Wave, Buzz, Google+. I mean, they basically flopped out of three social media engines in a row, trying to take on Facebook. And it’s tough at the top. But the thing they’re really good at is the Google ads, and the Google ads are driven from having the best search. And that’s why they have to make search good, to make the ads, which is where most of their money comes from, to my understanding. Someone may correct me, but that’s my understanding, the bulk of their money comes from those ads. Until they get the flying cars happening in Alphabet, which I know they’re working on. For now, that’s where we go.

Some takeaways to part on

So knowing what you know about websites and tuning them up, what’s a couple of highlights to finish up on that I should be asking you about, that I maybe don’t even know to ask you, Justin?

Justin: There’s a few little tips, I think. One thing that’s important is, we’ve already sort of gone over it, but I think it’s worth mentioning that with your website, it is important that you’re tracking things correctly, and setting up Google Tag Manager. Again, we’re going back to Google here. But Google Tag Manager is a great way to set up that tracking, because it also then helps with the speed of your websites. It’s setting up Tag Manager and putting in their analytics code and your remarketing tags and your Facebook pixel and those sort of things.

But also, heat map tracking. You can get a lot of valuable information about how users are using your website, and what that experience looks like through their eyes. Hotjar is a really good tool, and with that, you can actually get video recordings of how people are interacting with your website. That can give you some really valuable insights into how people are interacting with your site. So tracking and testing and looking at those metrics, like you were saying, you’ve noticed changes in the metrics, you’d only notice that if you’re looking at it every now and again. So there’s no point just sticking in analytics and you know, job done, off we go. It’s worth having a look at it on a regular basis, maybe once a month or something at least, and just seeing how things are going. So then you do notice the difference in the content marketing that you’re doing or other things that you might be doing.

And making sure that your website is secure, and that sort of thing, is also important, keeping those things up to date. So that’s, yeah, sort of the big tips.

Staying in control

Another thing that we didn’t really touch on, and this is one of the eight things, is building assets. And I think this is important for a website to be building assets for your business. And I know that this is something that you talk a lot about with your owning the racecourse, and that’s a big part of it. So making sure that your website is building something that is a saleable asset for your business, it is something that you control and you own. And so publishing that content on your own website, having it on WordPress, that you control yourself, it’s not on, like, a Wix site or something else where that’s actually owned by the Wix company, and you’ve just got a page on there. And building up an email database that gives you an asset that is saleable, and gives you control over contacting your clients, and yeah, building remarketing audiences, all those sort of things are really important. And I see a lot of websites that aren’t really doing that well, or could be improving the way that they’re making the most out of their website asset.

James: Awesome. So basically, I agree with you. You should be able to control the pixels that you’re putting on your page. Your own email database is essential. And if you do good content marketing, you will get the SEO traffic and you’ll have that money machine, that automatic sales machine, working in your favor.

Justin, I want to thank you so much for coming and sharing these tips.

Justin: No worries.

James: And helping us tune up our WordPress website. I’m looking forward to getting an update from you in the future to see how things are progressing. But I also want to congratulate you. I’ve known you since the early days of your online career, and had the great pleasure and good fortune of being around you in an online presence, but also face-to-face. We’ve been to the Maldives a few times. We’ve been to many events. You’ve come to my event, SuperFastBusiness Live; we’ve been to other people’s events.

Justin: Yeah.

James: And I’m really thankful that we’ve been able to have that great long-term relationship. And I love what you’re doing for your clients. You’ve got such a big heart. And it’s good to see you staying on top of the trends and being able to help them. So, thank you on behalf of all your customers as well.

Justin: Cheers, man. It’s always a pleasure having a chat. So thank you very much for having me on here.

James: There you go. That is Justin Meadows from TunedWP.com. And we’ll also have a PDF of some of the bullet points there and we’ll put links to Justin’s website. Thank you.

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