785 – Do You Use These Gamification Techniques for Your Courses and Membership Sites?

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John Lint

Episode highlights:

02:07 – More results, more happy customers, more leads and sales
03:17 – Turning your membership into a game
04:52 – A wonderful platform with Gamification built-in
08:13 – Sometimes it’s the simplest things…
11:09 – Engage users with encouragement and rewards
14:28 – The often-overlooked element of email
17:00 – Assigning tags and opening doors
19:56 – Just when you thought it couldn’t get better…
22:41 – More useful gamification tips
26:46 – Who will get the most out of the tool?
31:17 – Can you identify this accent?

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Transcription:

James: James Schramko here, welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. This is Episode 785. Today we’re going to be talking about gamification for membership sites, courses, etc. And the reason this topic is a big deal is, you know, membership sites are starting to mature a bit. I started my membership site back in 2009. We’re now in 2020 as I record this.

So there’s been quite a period, and I’ve seen, over that time, platforms evolve, changes happen, consumers consume in a different way. Even since I started, places like Facebook have really developed their groups, people have gotten used to using social media platforms, they get used to, I guess, almost addicted to having responses. And of course, if you’re an educator like I am, you want your customers to actually get a result.

Now some people out there are marketing about gamification. So I thought, what a great time to have a chat to my good friend, John Lint, from KLEQ.com, about what you’re seeing, John, when it comes to gamification. What changes have happened in the membership and course space, and what are we able to do now with our memberships and our courses that we couldn’t do a while back? And how much more useful is that for our members who are actually there to get a result?

More results, more happy customers, more leads and sales

John: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. And, yeah, I mean, gamification has evolved a lot throughout the past years. Like you mentioned, that’s something that a lot of social media websites are using. Sometimes they’re abusing it. But obviously, it works. It’s all about keeping people engaged, motivating people to come back.

And as an educator, if you’re selling online courses, or you have your own membership site, that’s what you want, you want people to come back, log in to the member’s area, go through the course. Why? Because that way, they can hopefully get more results. If they get more results, you have more happy customers. And when that happens, you have more repeat buyers and they’re going to spread the word, tell other people about their awesome experience. And that’s going to result in more traffic leads and sales for your online business.

So it’s an important thing. And yeah, like you mentioned, you know, with KLEQ.com, which is our online platform that we use, you and I use to create any kind of page, funnel, marketing campaign, accept payments online; all of that stuff. We have been adding, thanks to you and your awesome SuperFastBusiness members, great new functionality to the member’s area, to do that thing, to be able to keep people engaged, motivate them to come back and help them get more results from the courses that they might have purchased.

Turning your membership into a game

So maybe we can go through some of the, you know, features that we have and some of the important things that some of our members have been using. And it’s really about that. And the word gamification is all about making it a game, right? And when we think about this, it’s almost like a video game, right? In a video game, the way it works is that whenever you do something, you get a little reward.

You either get experience points – that’s where it comes from, actually – experience points that allow you to get different levels in the game, because then you only focus on the next level, right? And that’s very important for online course creators, because that’s the biggest issue. Whenever we sell an online course, it’s overwhelm. We don’t want people to get overwhelmed. So how do we do that?

Well, we break down the process. We know that we want them to go from point A to point B, but point B might seem really far away for some people, and they might feel discouraged. And what happens is that then they get overwhelmed, they feel like, hey I’m not going to be able to do it. Therefore, they either cancel, ask for a refund, or just give up, right? on their hopes and dreams.

And as an educator, we don’t want that. So how do we do it? Well, we break down the whole process into different steps, into different levels, into different gaming levels. So the goal with gamification is to reward people at every single step and tell them it’s okay, just focus on the next step, on the next level, just do those little extra steps. You’re going to get those points, and then you’re going to be able to achieve that level, get a reward on that level. So you feel good about it.

And then you’re like, oh, maybe I’m just going to do one more level. One more thing, just one more step. And that’s why this has been working so well with games, because you think that you’re going to play for, like, 15 minutes, and you end up playing for five hours. So it’s the same thing that we want to do with our online courses, right?

Achieving gamification via KLEQ.com

And with KLEQ that’s the beautiful thing, is that everything is built in. Everything is into one platform. For example, we have something that we call member titles. Member titles, imagine, is like a level in a game, right? So you have level one, level two, level three; you can create as many member titles as you want inside your member’s area. Now the good thing, just like any video game, is that those levels are displayed to other players.

That’s why people in a video game, they want to get that extra level, because then when they see other people, they’re going to check, oh, what’s the level of that player? Oh, he’s level 30. I’m level 35. I’m doing good. All right, I’m going to get my next level. And the guy who is level 30, and he looks at your profile and you’re level 35, he wants to be level 35, right? So you have big games and multi-billion-dollar companies and video games that have been using that strategy. So we can use the same thing in KLEQ by using those member titles.

So how do you get a member title? You can get it with points; and for example, in KLEQ, you can reward your members whenever they do specific actions. For example, if you’re using, like, you, a social wall, which is like a private Facebook group, but inside your KLEQ.com website – so it’s like a private Facebook group, but without the fear of being censored by Facebook, if you know what I mean – you have your own private community right there.

So whenever I create a post, I can get points. Whenever I reply to a post, it means I’m engaged, I can get points. Whenever I like a post, I get points. Whenever I receive a like, I can get points. And as you start getting more points, for example, like I play a video, like maybe I’m watching a lesson in the course, you can give them some extra points based on the action that they do. As they do more actions, as they are more engaged with your online course, they can then start reaching those levels. And that’s all part of the game.

So that’s one of the features that we call member titles, and also action points, that will help you gamify your whole experience, right? Gamify your entire online course. So that’s a beautiful thing that our members have been using recently to really boost the engagement of their course and membership sites as well. So if you’re running a membership site, you can use that feature to motivate people to consume more of your content, for example. Makes sense, yeah?

James: Makes a lot of sense. And I know you’re actually passionate about online games. So you came to this with quite a lot of experience, understanding the motivation. And of course, you have some sensitivities against social media platforms, partly because they just do their own thing, which is what they do. They’re in the game of getting that data, the customer being the product. So they want people to be on that product, so they can then sell the data or sell the advertising space.

Now when we’re a course creator, or a membership provider, our motivations are a little bit different. We’ve probably already been paid. So yes, we’re motivated by money, like the platform. Of course, that’s the byproduct of creating value. But the goal to having a happy customer and a repeat customer and a lifetime value increasing is for that customer to get the transformation. And you’ve spoken about this on previous episodes, to get that transformation that they had in mind when they joined.

So you’ve talked about, in particular, how a forum or community psychology works where people can see other people on a certain level. Theoretically, you could have it as a white belt, yellow belt, green belt, blue belt, black belt. In mine, for example, I’ve got like, you know, beginner; I’ve got, you know, like a seasoned member, then I’ve got expert, and then I’ve got, like, old hand. Those sort of, you know, referring to the stage or experience level of that person.

Sometimes it’s the simplest things…

I know they get points in terms of how much contribution they’re doing. And that really does unlock some. But what about courses? Can things as simple as a progress bar be an element of encouraging someone to complete? Can you talk about those, just the simplest features that you’ve got?

John: Sure. Sure. Sure, Absolutely. I mean, that’s a very powerful one that anybody can install. Now the beautiful thing with KLEQ, it just takes one checkbox, you check one checkbox, you say yes, I want to enable progress tracking, and that’s it. Now you have an entire progress added to your online course. And what does that do? Well, it tells you, let’s say you have 10 lessons in that course, you have done a quick, what we call a one-page course, super easy, takes two seconds to create. That’s the fastest way for anyone to get started online.

If you want to create your online course, just create one page in KLEQ, add your videos and boom, your course is created. So that’s something that we teach as part of KLEQ.

James: That sounds too easy, sounds too easy.

John: Right. Sounds too easy, but it’s beautiful, and it’s very easy to do. And I’ll teach you all about it. We have everything that you need to know about this inside the KLEQ.com Academy. But basically, you then enable progress tracking, and what that means that now you have the progress bar and now all the lessons that you have added to that course can be tracked, meaning that they can mark your lesson as complete.

So we have actually multiple things that we do, and it’s very interesting how our members have been using this. The very basic is they have a lesson, they watch the training, and they have a button that says, ‘mark as complete’. They can click it. But if you want to add more automation, you can also time it with the video. So for example, you could say, hey, only mark this lesson if they have watched x seconds of that video, or x seconds of that lesson. And all of that is automated. And some members use that because they want to make sure that the member has actually watched the video.

James: If it was, like, safety training for a company where they had to prove that it was watched, that might be a useful feature. You know, where it’s life or death situation, you know? Or if they hired a team of professional salespeople, and they put a sales training in there, they would want to insist that that team has gone through the training to get a certain level of competency or certification. And I imagine you can fire off a certificate, etc.

John: Yeah, and that’s also for convenience’s sake, right? I mean, it’s also very convenient to not ask the user to click on the button to mark as complete. So you can have actually both, and that’s an advanced rule that we have in KLEQ, where you can say, progress tracking, what are the conditions? You can select, for example, only when they click or only when they have watched x seconds of the video, or both, when they clicked or have watched x seconds of the video.

So that allows you to really improve the experience. You can also do this with what we call audio blocks, audio lessons. Because some courses, they don’t have to be on video, they can just be audio-based type of online courses. And in that case, we also have the same feature. If they have listened to x seconds of that audio, you can mark the lesson as complete. So all of that is automated. And like you said, with the progress tracking, we actually have multiple levels.

Engage them with encouragement and rewards

Unlike other experience or gamification type of platforms, we go further, and you now have multiple reward levels, basically. So yeah, we can do the thing where when they complete the entire course, you can reward them. And we can talk about the different ways you can reward people and the different things that you can do and how we do it in KLEQ. But you can also reward members, and that’s a good strategy, to reward them at different levels. Because again, we want to avoid overwhelm, we want to keep them engaged, and it’s a great way to reward them at multiple levels.

So for example, you could reward them when they have completed 100 percent of their lessons. But you could also say, but I also want to reward them at 25 percent, 50 percent, 75 percent, and 100 percent.

James: So you could do like an encouragement. You could say, ‘Hey, you’re making great progress. Keep up the good work. Just a little bit further, and you’ll get to the halfway point.’ Like, are you saying that it’s only limited by your creativity or your ability to actually decide what you actually want?

John: Yeah, absolutely. It’s based on how you want to create that gamification, right? So if we go back to video games, right, what are the things that they do? Well, they do a few things. So for example, you reach a new level, there’s usually some kind of animation and sound that fires, and it’s usually the same one. And that’s something that happens in your brain. And you’re like, okay, great, I’ve got my little reward, right?

So you get level one, boom, little sound and animation. We have this feature in KLEQ called celebration animation. And it’s basically, you will see an animation on your screen. So let’s say you reach 25 percent of the course right now. That’s one type of reward. We have multiple types of rewards available in KLEQ; one of them is the animation. So you see a little animation; you might have confettis going on on the page, you’re definitely going to have a sound and you’re going to have a little notification that says, ‘Hey, congratulations. You have completed 25 percent.’ Right? That’s one of the rewards.

Another reward can be as simple as giving them a badge, right? It’s like an image that shows them in their achievements. Because we have a section in KLEQ called achievements. Just like in any game, any video game, you can go to your achievements or trophies. And in that page, you will see all of the available trophies and the ones that you have. And what does that do? That will show you, oh I could get that reward if I get, for example, 50 likes. Or if I watched 10 videos, I can get this trophy. And it’s just a way of again, making it as a game, right?

So we have the badges. We have the animations, we have the celebrations, but something else that now we can go deeper and more advanced where you can, for example, start applying a tag to that user. And when we talk about applying a tag, we’re talking about applying a tag in your emailing system, right? So you are using, for example, Ontraport, James; I use Infusionsoft. A lot of our members are using MailChimp, AWeber, Activecampaign, ConvertKit; whatever you’re using, we have deep integration with emailing system.

And now in all of these steps, we can reward our users. And we can apply a tag. And if you know a little bit about doing advanced automation, then applying your tag, you know that is super powerful. Because now, let’s say they have the 25 percent completion tag, you can add them to one of your automations in your emailing system. And you could, for example, send an email the next day that goes automatically whenever someone gets 25 percent. And it can be an email from you. And I know that, James, you love to talk about conversational conversions.

The often-overlooked element of email

James: Emails are still, they’re the most important thing. You know, our previous guest on episode 784, Dan Norris, who’s built an eight-figure business through really great marketing and branding and storytelling and social media, at the end of the day, he said email is still king for them, too. So yeah. It’s often overlooked, and it’s dismissed easily. Like, you know, people talk to me about membership solutions that include the emails in them, like, they really like the all-in-one thing, and there’s a good case for that.

But when you’re putting email in there, then I think you’re missing out on some of the magic. When you have a very powerful system like we do with Ontraport, and you do with Infusionsoft, the ability for them to talk hand in glove, and to share deep integration with the tags and sequences, it just opens up so many options. For example, the one that I asked you for, and you integrated, was the slipping away sequence. To be able to ask someone back when they’ve stopped visiting, is absolutely a game changer. That could take the lifetime value of a client from $500 to $2,500.

That one email saying, ‘Hey, John, it’s been a while. Is everything okay?’ And you say, ‘Yeah, mate. I’ve got a brand new Black Hops game, and I’ve been a bit absorbed in it lately. Yeah, I should come back and work on my business a bit.’ You know, you get in that conversation, they come back. So what you’re telling me is we can build the experience around any combination of stages they’re at in the course, levels they’re at in the course, completions in the course, firing off tags or sequences based on if they visit a page, click a button, watch something; this is all deeply integrated. Is that what you’re saying?

John: Yeah, that’s right, deeply integrated with your emailing system CRM. And that’s why people like you, people who have five-figure businesses, six-figure businesses, seven-figure businesses, and more, they’re switching to KLEQ, because of that deep integration, because of that deep level of automation and segmentation that you can do. Because now, it’s really up to you how you want to do it, right, because now, let’s say, going back to an example, this person just reached 25 percent of the course, great.

That’s a great opportunity to send them a quick email, very simple email, ‘Hey, awesome. I just noticed that you completed 25 percent of the course. Keep it up, let me know if I can help you.’ And you love to do these types of things, where then, it’s a personal email that comes from you. And then they reply back to you, great. Engage with them in that one-on-one conversation. They’re going to love you, they’re going to trust you more, they’re going to go through your course.

James: You can say, “Hey, you’ve just achieved 25 percent of the course. I’ve unlocked a bonus module for you.” Can I do that?

Assigning tags and opening doors

John: Absolutely. So that was going to be my next point where we have that. And then we have, of course, the deep integration via API and the web hook. So all of that is kind of like tech stuff. But what does it mean? It means that now, you can actually register them to a course, or a bundle, or maybe open and close different things from an external system. What is going to be that external system? In your case, Ontraport; in my case, Infusionsoft. That means that you can send a little notification to your KLEQ.com site, and you can say, give him access to that course. All of that is based on the automation.

We have members who are building amazing types of reward systems, where they’re opening the doors to a new course, if they have completed 25 percent or 50 percent of that other course, right? So that’s one example. We also can go deeper in KLEQ where we also apply those tags at the lesson level. So for example, we talked about the progress tracking, which is the built in feature, but you could also apply a tag when someone marks that lesson, that specific lesson. And again, your lesson can just be as simple as a video, right?

When they mark the lesson as complete, either by clicking or when the video automatically reaches x seconds, you can apply your tag in your emailing system. So what does that mean? That now you can have rules, you can open the door to different things. But then you can also have page landing rules, which we call page landing rules. What does that mean? It means that when I land on a page in a course, in my member’s area, I can apply a tag.

And we also have a rule that says, only allow them to access the page if they have this tag in your emailing system. So a ton of people listening to this, their brain is now firing, like, saying, ‘Oh, yes. So we can do this, this and that.’

James: Well, you know what I’m thinking? I’m thinking there’s a ton of people listening to this, who probably just hopped on the bandwagon of a big launch with a big promise of experienced gamification sort of memberships, who just discovered that that solution is not even as powerful as what KLEQ does. Like, this is so exciting.

What I’m hearing here is, if you don’t want to overwhelm people, you could show people two things. And then if they watch half the next video, then you could reveal to them another page that is now there the next time they go there, and then it keeps stacking on.

John: Yeah.

James: A lot like I’ve done it with a drip on the 30-day challenge that I’m releasing. Every time they go in, there’s an extra page added. And you can give them milestones. It’s just basically, there’s so much you can do.

John: There’s so many ways of doing this.

James: And I know you’ve restrained from talking about this. Yeah. You’ve not talked about all of this, because we wanted to keep it simple in the early days of, you know, just get your first business up and running.

But for someone at my stage, it just opens up a massive world of opportunity that was limited by the type of platform we were on. It was too hard to glue together the bits and to make it all talk. Even an example, I had to pay like $290 a month for this extra piece of software, just to be able to let people know that they’ve slipped away. That’s now just, you know, you built that in for me.

Just when you thought it couldn’t get better…

The other thing the other day, I just wanted to mention this while we’re here, I just sent you a message saying, “Oh my God, this thing is so powerful.” When people comment on the post, it popped up a little desktop notifier for me. And I click on it and I can go and answer. I’m like, ‘Oh, this has been the missing piece to the puzzle for me for 10 years.’

John: Absolutely.

James: The ability to just respond in real time with a desktop notification. That is…

John: Super powerful.

James: Because if I can respond to their question in a fairly timely manner, I know they’re there at their computer right now.

John: Exactly.

James: And guess what they get on the other side? Desktop notification. So it’s an asynchronous communication, is that what you call it, where you’re getting this sort of like a CB chat back in the old days when I was a kid (and I just lost half my audience). We used to talk on CBs after school, like before mobile phones, and you know, one person talks, the other person talks. And you can have a really great conversation in your community or social wall, which is the one I’m really loving in SuperFastResults, the social wall platform.

We had a friend of ours actually, he recently said, “I just want to join your program. It’s $10 a month, I just want to see what you’re doing.” He joined. He sent me a guilt-laden email. He said, “Remember you told me that your customer should feel like they’re getting so much value, they’re ripping you off?” And I said, “Yeah.” He goes, “I feel like I’m ripping you off. Can you send me a coupon. I need to upgrade because you’re delivering too much for too little in this program.”

Like, the ease of use, and the fluid nature of how it works combined with the features you’re about to release, which I asked for and you’re doing, which we’ll talk about in another episode, it’s just like, when I think it’s gone to the level that it can’t go past, you just take it to the next level.

John: Thank you.

James: Some people’s brains blew up. Some people are curious and want to check it out. If you do want to check out KLEQ, you can take a trial of it. So you can have a very low risk exploration. Do they get access to your first course in a weekend if they take a trial?

John: Yeah, absolutely. So when you take the trial, you get full access to the academy.

James: Okay. Which is also available via an app, which is brilliant, because again, it’s easy to use; easy to use the website. You could take your course in a weekend training, build your course and sell it before you get a first rebill if you still want to stick around, which you should, and it’s paid for. So there’s like a zero risk. Is the trial a dollar? Correct me if I’m wrong.

John: Yeah one dollar. That’s right.

James: So you could risk $1 to try this. Don’t just listen to this podcast, go and try it out. Roll up your sleeves, try these features, because it’s just like, amazing. It really is amazing.

John: Yeah, absolutely.

More useful gamification tips

James: Let’s wrap up. What else have we got on the gamification, just to close? Just a quick summary. We’re making it more fun for people to use, we’re helping them get a result easier, and we’ve got infinite flexibility in the platform to be able to do that. Okay.

John: Yeah, that’s right. And basically, if you’re just starting out, or if you are starting out with gamification, just use the basic feature that we talked about, which is enabling progress tracking, add your reward levels, and you’re done. If you are a bit more advanced, you already have courses, you’ve been selling them for a while, and we have a ton of members that fit that description, then I invite you to then start investigating these extra more advanced features that we talked about today, such as you know, the tagging, being able to do different things, opening the doors.

And for example, things that I was talking to the different members about this week, which is for example, there’s an advanced feature, which is, only allow them to watch this lesson if they have completed, like, another previous lesson.

James: A prerequisite, like a core lesson. You maybe have a core lesson, which if they don’t take that, nothing else will make sense. You could make that a mandatory, and I’m thinking here, if I was to start a new forum tomorrow, I would have an induction or introduction lesson that they must watch before they’re allowed into, I’d have it as a staging area. That would be how I would onboard people. If I could easily do it with the platform I had before, that’s how I would do it. So that’s brilliant.

John: Yeah, you could do that. Some people go even more advanced where they say, ‘Each lesson, you can only watch if you have completed the previous one.’ So lesson one, two, three, four, five; you can only watch five, if you have completed four, you can only watch four, if you have completed three, etc, right? That’s up to you, that’s again, that’s the whole thing with KLEQ, it’s about giving you that control to do whatever you want in any way you want. We give you the tools, and it’s up to your imagination to set it up any way you want.

You can go super fast, use the basic stuff, but you can go really deep and start doing really advanced stuff, okay? So that’s another one that is really specific. And we didn’t talk about the assessments, the fact that you can add tests, little tests that you can again, reward them when they complete the test. Why would you want to do that? Again, it’s all about that experience. It’s all about that gamification, it’s all about making them feel good. And if you give them for example, a little assessment at the end of module one, and they complete it, boom, they get a reward, they’re happy about it, little dopamine hits, and then they go to module two, and they can have another assessment if they want to.

And all the advanced things that we talked about, which is applying the tag when they have completed successfully that assessment, you can do. And as you know, that opens the doors to then start doing a bunch of different automation and segmentation. If they have that tag, do that; if they don’t have that tag, then do these other things, right? So without going to too much details about this, just know that those advanced features are part of KLEQ. You don’t have to buy some other experience platform. You don’t have to spend $2,000 on a course that teaches you that. Everything is included in KLEQ.

You want to create pages, funnels, accept payments online, affiliate system, webinars, gamification, and advanced automation, segmentation, it’s all there. Let us worry about adding those cool things. And I’m always working with you and your awesome members to get new ideas on what we should include.

James: Well, to finish off, I’m going to share one story and then I’m going to ask you one question.

John: Sure.

James: The story is, when I got my very first computer, it was a Microbee 16B. I think it was 16K of RAM. It would have been in the early 80’s. And the only game we had, I think it was called Monkey Maths. And you put a cassette in the machine, it was on Basic or DOS, I can’t remember, it was like, maybe Basic. I had to run it. And then it would load up this game. And it was just a monkey crawling up a thing. And you had to do addition and subtraction for it to climb up the vine or something like that. But that was gamification and like the very, very, very beginning, but that’s how you use it to teach kids and it’s just, how far has it come since now? Now there’s more technology on my iPhone than they would have sent to the moon in the first rocket. It’s mind-blowing.

Who will get the most out of the tool?

My question for you, John, is when you think about your top three or four KLEQ.com users, like the people who are using the platform really well, I want you to look for the patterns or think about, how would you describe them with a couple of labels so that if someone’s listening to this, they could say, “Oh yes, that’s a bit like me, I should go and check out this platform.” That doesn’t mean you can’t check it out if you’re a beginner. It doesn’t mean you can’t check it out if you think you’re going to build your own software. And by the way, just a cautionary tale on that, like the three or four people I know who went down that path, all had to hire a Chief Technical Officer for $160,000 a year to run their Frankenstein. That costs tens of thousands a month, right?

So it’s like having John’s business but without all the customers. Anyway, what would be the description of someone who’s going to get just the massive value instantly out of the gate?

John: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, obviously, we think about who is going to be able to get started fast and be able to get immediate results. Obviously, someone who has been in the game for a little bit, like, you know, who has gone through the first steps, which is finding your market. So if you already have a market, then perfect, you might have already done some online courses before, maybe you recorded some videos, you’re kind of familiar with that process, you know, then that’s going to be a big advantage, because now, you have that power weapon right there at your disposal.

You kind of have an idea about the different things you want to do. And these are the people who get started super fast, because they know what they want to do. And then they see KLEQ. And then when they start seeing all of these features, something clicks, and they’re like, ‘Okay, now I understand why James is talking about this. Now I understand that, okay, I can just get my team member, someone who is in my team to learn how to do those things that he just talked about,’ and boom, they implement, right?

So obviously, the character is an action taker, someone who is obviously a coach or an information publisher who is in that educational space. We’re all educators, basically, at the end of the day. We’re educating people on how to get a specific result. And we do it either through a service, coaching, or online training, right? And also, our membership sites, it’s all about coaching and education. So someone who is an action taker, maybe you have been doing this for a little bit, you’re making maybe four figures a month or five figures a month, and you want to go to that next level; six, seven per year, for example, then KLEQ is perfect for you.

And that’s why we called it KLEQ, right? It’s about being a professional, it’s about doing those advanced things that maybe didn’t make sense. Like everything we shared today, for some people made total sense, for some other people, it’s a bit advanced, and that’s okay, right? 10X, it’s about speed, it’s about going fast. But it’s also about becoming a professional. It’s about treating your business as a professional. It’s not a hobby, it’s not online hobby. It’s online business. It’s about applying everything that you always teach, James, building your team, growing, getting to know your audience, finding the problems, creating an offer that converts; all of that.

And if you have those little elements in place and a huge team, but you’re getting there, you’re going to that pro level territory, then KLEQ is, in my view, of course, the best platform for you. That’s what I’ve been doing since day one. Because I wanted to be able to do more things online. I wanted to be able to create online courses, my membership sites, being able to do all these advanced automation, segmentation funnels. But I didn’t want to buy some type of hyped-up product that was going to end in a few months after they have done their launch. No more support, the tool is dead. I didn’t want that.

So I was working with developers, and I was always asking them, ‘Hey, can you build this for me? I want to add it to my own platform.’ That’s how I started. And then I started to work with people like you, who were asking me those same questions. ‘Hey, John, I want to be able to do this, because I don’t want to buy this $297 tool just to be able to do that. I just want to add this to my current site.’ And that’s how we’ve grown KLEQ. That’s how we started to add more features. And this is kind of like, hopefully, I’ve answered your question; this is the type of people that we want to attract, right?

James: Look, I’m thinking of, you know, it’s like going from go-karting into Formula One. I think you and I were like Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes-Benz, you know, seven years partnership of winning every single Formula One constructors, championship like, you’ve got the driver. So you’re saying if someone’s already able to drive, they’ve got some products, they’ve been around the block, you get in the right vehicle, away we go. And we work closely together. I know you’re working with me and several other, like a handful of super users, to refine and mold the product in the direction without the hype, without any flim flam, sort of easy to talk about marketing pitches, like just a really good tool.

Identifying the accent

So I think we end it there. Gamification, we get there, we always bring up that passion, John. I’ve got to ask this, just one more bonus question, this is a listener question, where is your accent from? Because a lot of people think you’re South American.

John: South American, okay, I’m not. Well, I kind of am, actually. So I’m actually originally from Belgium. But the thing is I never lived in Belgium. I lived around the world. I spent a lot of time in America, and I am actually also Australian. Okay, I’m married to an Australian, a beautiful lady, and I lived in Australia more than seven years. Do I have an Australian accent? Probably not. But I have a weird accent. So I guess, a mix of Belgium, American, Australian, mix of everything. And you’re talking about South American? Yeah, my mom is actually Peruvian. So maybe I have a little bit of that, too. I don’t know.

James: There you go. Thank you for answering that. I don’t know if I was going to be able to sleep tonight without getting that answer.

John: Okay, no problem.

James: Most importantly, your wife is a tremendous cook. So I appreciate all the recipe tips. All right. So we’ll catch up on a future episode. If you’ve got a question about memberships, courses, software platforms, send it in; email [email protected]. Let me know. I’ll ask John to come back, and we’ll just lay it out. You know, he’s just so generous every single time. We get the firehose of information.

If you’ve listened to this episode, which is Episode 785, and, you now have a pretty good comprehension of what gamification looks like in a membership or a course, know that KLEQ can do whatever you need to do. If it doesn’t, let us know. We’ll find out if that’s in the product pipeline. Thank you so much for listening. I’ll catch you on a future episode.

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