760 – Design Insights PLUS The Past, Present and Future Business Model of James Schramko

Podcast: Download (Duration: 31:15 — 28.8MB)

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James Schramko and Greg Merrilees

Interview highlights:

00:50 – A change of pace
02:33 – An overview of the business
04:09 – A decade’s worth of evolution
05:02 – From building websites to top-level coaching
07:08 – Bringing in the business
09:23 – Owning the racecourse
11:23 – The point where you need a team
15:03 – What the look and feel can do
17:08 – Expectation and delivery
19:31 – The power of branding
22:34 – Evolution or revolution?
24:08 – Good copy counts
25:10 – Some really good results
26:00 – Another side of success
28:33 – A few years’ forecast

Let your business and lifestyle benefit from James’s world-class expertise

Transcription:

James: James Schramko here, and welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. This is Episode 760. And we’re doing something different in this episode. As you’ve heard me talk about in previous episodes, I want to get away from the straight-up, you know, guest interview where people are coming along to sell their stuff.

A change of pace

I want to do more solo episodes and other interesting projects. And something just came along that I thought might be interesting. I have a long-term client, Greg Merrilees, a lovely guy. He came to me, was doing quite well with his business, but he’s doing way better now. He’s been a long-term SilverCircle member, and he’s putting together a book, because he’s got a design service.

And he wanted to interview me as part of his book, as a case study, in terms of what good design and marketing has happened as a result of his services for my business. And in the process of that interview, he really went deep into my business where it started, where it is now, where it’s going.

And along that storytelling of me sharing the case study, a lot of things came out that I probably haven’t ever talked about – some of the early background things, some of the influences I had in terms of brand guidelines and marketing.

So you’ll get a little bit of a design angle on this podcast. It’ll definitely introduce you to my story, if you’re not familiar with it, and you’ll know what I’m doing next, after we get past the current phase of business. And I’ve got a few exciting things in place. So tune in as Greg Merrilees from Studio1Design.com interviews me, and we see what happens.

By the way, if you like this episode, hit reply to the email that told you about it or let us know on the podcast. If you don’t like it, then, sure, let me know as well, and we’ll steer clear of this kind of thing in the future.

It is an experiment. I want to do something a little bit deeper. This is definitely more personal, it’s sharing things that in some cases, I’ve held on to a little bit, but here it is, all ready for you to enjoy. This is Episode 760.

An overview of the business

Greg: Alright, so I’d like to welcome James Schramko from SuperFastBusiness.com, SilverCircle.com, SuperFastResults.com. And what else is there, James?

James: Oh, author of Work Less Make More.

Greg: Yeah, which is a sensational book. Highly recommended. And so yeah, first, James, give us an overview of what your business looks like today.

James: So, Greg, my business is all online, except for a very, very small offline portion. I run a once-a-year event for my members of my community, and I run a once-a-year mastermind or experience in the Maldives in a typical year. But everything else is online.

I basically coach online businesses through the various levels that you just mentioned. And it’s sort of, generally, I work with people who are already doing something. And then I help them sort of do the right things and improve what they’re doing. And it usually falls over four different categories.

And I’ve found, through, you know, constant refinement of my systems and processes, that you get results with the right type of candidates. And in terms of routine and structure, I have a team overseas, a very small team who work for me full-time. I have independent contractors to come in and do specialized jobs when we need them. And design would be a great example of that.

My customers are located all around the world. So, I think about 65 percent of my audience are outside Australia where I live, most of the time. I do spend some time in the Philippines, and it’s been going for over 10 years. So it’s a very stable and established business.

A decade’s worth of evolution

Greg: That’s amazing. Yeah. And I mean, your business has evolved a lot over the years since you started, how long ago was that? 10 years ago, roughly?

James: I started my business, technically, I registered a domain in 2005. And I started at the end of 2005 to try and figure out how to build a website. And I initially seeded my company by selling some sales training, you know, offline sales training. And I used the money that I invoiced for that to buy a laptop. And it was with that laptop that I built my online business, and it was a pretty slow start.

But I was up and running to the point where in 2008, roundabout July 2008, I was able to quit my General Manager’s role. Because I was running a Mercedes-Benz dealership, and I had a pretty good salary. But I needed to be able to match my salary until I quit my job. And I was able to do that. And from then on, I’ve never looked back.

From building websites to top-level coaching

Greg: It’s amazing. Yeah. And that journey, so going from building websites to now coaching some of the world’s top online businesses, what was the journey in between? How’d you go from that to coaching?

James: I already brought to the table my business skills. So I was a general manager. I had advanced skills in terms of hiring and training and running a team. I had 72 staff when I quit my job. I had already had experience running multi-million-dollar businesses. The last business was doing around $50 million a year, and my job before that, we were doing 100 million dollars a year.

I’d already worked with big brands like Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Vodafone, General Motors. And I’d also worked in micro businesses, small businesses like my grandfather’s brokerage out in a shed out the back of his house. So I had a lot of experience in the general business sense.

But it was really an evolution of me just learning the online stuff, enough to be able to figure out how it works. I had early successes with search engine optimization, and with website creation, even though I’m not a coder, and I’m not a technical sort of geeky guy. I was able to just pragmatically understand what’s happening.

And then through an evolution of helping myself and then helping others, with those two things, I was able to build up some teams. And I built up a website development business, I built up a search engine optimization business, and later on, I sold those businesses.

And in the meantime, I had this community where it started off fairly small, I think 65 members for my main community. I had one or two mentoring students that turned into sort of half a dozen or 10 or 20 higher-level students. And over time, those two levels sort of grew.

And then I managed to convert some of those just through a natural organic process into business partners. So I have a little portfolio now of around a dozen business partners, and I help them grow their business. And I’ve started adding things like the book, and Audible, and some courses that can help me reach people who aren’t quite ready for the full-on coaching yet.

Bringing in the business

Greg: And so you have various levels of businesses that you help, but how do you attract businesses to your business?

James: I’d say we’re pretty content marketing heavy. In the early days, I tried all sorts of things. You know, I was actually a super affiliate. Before I quit my job, I used to drive a lot of traffic to offers. So I was really good at paid traffic and landing pages and copy and things that would help convert. I really cut my teeth on that stuff.

I used to build my own websites and run all my marketing campaigns and shockingly, I even did all my own graphics and designs, and did all my search engine optimization and all my email writing, and basically did every single thing in my business.

And then I hired a support person. And then I hired a content person. And then over time, I hired people to help me with the website and then I went out as I could afford it, to get professional level things such as API, software, coding, design, and then professional writing. So these things added on later as my business matured.

But in terms of traffic, I’ve been podcasting for a long time. That’s been a steady source of leads for me. And more recently in the last few years, I certainly did this a long time ago, and then stopped and then started again, is short video marketing out there on social platforms, bringing people some awareness to what I do.

And then of course, the book is working well, and I use Amazon as a prime distribution awareness zone there. It’s very common for someone to see my book recommended when they purchase another book, and they’ll buy the book and then they’ll get to know me that way, and they come through into my programs.

So there’s different ways that people become aware of me. And also in the past, I’ve done some speaking appearances. It’s varied in terms of frequency over the years. I do some guesting appearances. And now we’re even doing some paid traffic, but mostly to warm audiences, remarketing to people who might have visited my site, just to help the conversion process. But I do get a lot of referrals.

And the other thing, luckily, for my business model, is because it’s predominantly recurring, a lot of people just stick around. So I have a very strong core base of people who I’ve had for a long time, and because they don’t leave, I’m not constantly scraping around for new customers to replace them.

Owning the racecourse

Greg: Yeah, absolutely. So I think you call that the Octopus, where you’ve got tentacles out on every platform. But you’re also famous for Own The Racecourse, right? So can you just talk a little bit about that?

James: It’s about ownership and control. It’s like, some people build their whole business on someone else’s platform. You know, they might be a YouTube celebrity, they might have a big Facebook fan page, they might be an Instagram influencer, they might be a podcaster.

And these can be great while they work, but sometimes we see the platform makes a change, or that they don’t like a type of topic anymore. Or there’s just issues in terms of control where things, you know, aren’t able to be done.

Like, for example, if you were to run a membership group on Facebook, you can’t automatically add people as they get billed and remove them, and you’re not able to access all their data. Like, Facebook has certain criteria around what users can and can’t do, and you don’t have much say in that. And the big risk, of course, is that it just disappears.

So I always thought it was more wise to build your own asset, where you have a lot of control, and bring people to that. Use those other channels. Use your Youtube video channel, use your podcast, use your Instagram channel, use your Facebook page to get people on the other platforms. And that’s like putting your racehorse out at other people’s racetracks to win races, but you bring them all back to your racecourse where you get to have a say in it.

And you can control your pricing, you can control the customer experience. And most importantly, you can control the messaging and the marketing and the branding. The thing I really don’t like about being on other people’s platforms is generally they control the monetization of it, and that usually involves ads and then marketing to your customers and in diluting the experience. So I have a much more pure, controllable experience on my own website.

Greg: Yeah. And your website, you know, SuperFastBusiness.com, is really your main hub where you house all this content. And from all these other channels, you’re bringing people back to your website, and your podcast is hosted on your website as well.

The point where you need a team

So that website has evolved a lot over the years. And then I know you said, you know, you did it all yourself initially. But then what was the turning point? Or is it an income level? Or what mindset? Why was it that at some point, you decided to invest in others to take it to the next level?

James: As opposed to those things? Yeah, you know, when I started, I wouldn’t even spend money on an ebook for 30-something dollars. I was pretty stubborn, and I wanted to try and figure this out myself. I would say the older version of me would be the kind of person who just, even though they knew it was a bit painful, just had to do it anyway. And there’s some people who are that sort of stubborn.

And because I’m fairly hands on, it’s how I like to learn. Like, just give me all the bits and let me figure it out. I would rarely read an instruction manual for anything that I buy. You know, I basically just put it aside, throw out the box and then start playing with the thing. That’s how I operate.

Over time, I’ve learned to refer to the instruction manual, from time to time, and even beyond that I might get someone else to go through it and then set it all up for me and show me exactly what it can do. And I found that’s quite powerful.

It sort of reminded me of when I was in charge of the Mercedes-Benz dealership. I knew everything about the car – and I’d say most customers only know a fraction of what the car is capable of, or what it can do – little tricks and knick knacks that you get to know if you really go deeper into it.

Like being able to close all the windows by holding the remote control down, you know, and sunroof at a distance, those sort of things. A lot of owners wouldn’t know those tricks. You know, I’d know how to reset a boot, or a trunk, if it doesn’t go up or down automatically, those sort of things.

So over time, I mean, in the beginning of course, I wasn’t making any money. So I didn’t have any money to reinvest in it. And so I was going to dip into my wage or some other income source. I think this is a very common affliction. That’s why I’m very keen for people to focus on the offer that converts. And that is, what can they provide for sale that someone would actually give them money for.

And then the mindset part comes in, you know? Are you willing to reinvest some of that back into the business to grow it faster than if you take all the money out, and you know, you take longer for it to grow.

So when I reinvested in the support person, that was definitely a mental exercise, because I calculated how many bonus claims people were making. This is how my business model worked back then, as an affiliate. I was selling someone else’s software. And every time they bought it from me, they would claim a bonus from me, and I would manually have to check an email, send them the bonus, I logged them into my system.

And I was doing, like, several a day. And then I realized I could pay someone, like, $1,000 a month and never have to do this again. And that was good. So that was a case of something I was doing that I shouldn’t be doing. Not because I wasn’t good at it, but because it just didn’t make sense.

But then I started running into other areas where I’m not even that good at it. I have to say, I’m not a very good designer. I certainly would not have classified myself as someone who was creative, or even understood what design meant to any major extent.

And over time, and definitely being exposed to you and the outputs, I think I’ve gained much more sensitivity to design, not just from, you know, the traditional way that people enter it in terms of the looks of things, but definitely more in terms of the way things work and the user experience and the flow and the functionality.

And you know, I’ve researched people like Steve Jobs at Apple and some of the things that influenced him in terms of design, and then looking at different cultures like the Japanese things. And having worked for an engineering-heavy company like Mercedes-Benz, I got to see how the difference in things, the way they were made, made a difference in the user experience, and how people felt about their company.

What the look and feel can do

And what I discovered is a definite link between having premium brand positioning and making it look and feel like a premium brand would change the perception and therefore the amount that someone would pay. And it also made me feel better about the experience, too, because people were investing more in themselves, and it allowed me to take that motivation to really deliver.

And I would say my premium brand, SilverCircle, has very much ended up like AMG would be for Mercedes-Benz. You know, Mercedes-Benz is often referred to as a three-pointed star and its brand values are, you know, engineering excellence and extremely well made and stylish and good-looking and desirable.

And their color palette even being black and silver and clean and efficient, but not as bland and boring as, say, brands like Audi. I think SilverCircle has ended up being, you know, like a three-pointed star. But it’s you know, it’s a silver circle. It’s a very simple brand. It’s a clean and efficient-looking brand, but it also delivers a high-output result. It’s not braggy or showy or flashy, like a Ferrari.

Greg: Yeah.

James: It’s not quirky and weird and funny like a Renault, or Citroen.

Greg: Yep.

James: It’s just dependable, reliable, high-output value for money at the high end of town. And I can really see how things have translated over time.

And when I think back to, it was about the year 2001, I went off to a dealer principle training camp, it was for future leaders. And one of the people I learned a lot from was the guy who was in charge of the Mercedes-Benz brand, globally. He used to run the motor shows. And he ended up becoming the CEO of Australasia. And his session was really powerful. I think it’s the first time I understood the connection between engineering a brand and getting the output to match, whereas before I’d just been slapping things together.

Expectation and delivery

Greg: Yeah, yeah. That’s incredible. And so, I mean, with all of your websites, you’ve invested in them. Like, overall, has it resulted in more sales, would you say? Or more leads or more traffic or more opportunities?

James: Most definitely, as I’ve improved my designs and lifted the brand perception. And of course, you’ve got to back them up with results and performance, you know? You can have a flashy brand, but then it can fall flat if you don’t deliver. The market is savvy. They will find out. People are more intelligent than marketers give them credit for.

So with the caveat that you have to be able to match the brand value, choose. If you want to go for a Rolls Royce, Bentley-level brand, you would have to deliver an experience that would be akin to what you would expect.

I learnt this, my second-last job, I was sent to a brand new Mercedes-Benz dealership. It was the most expensive Mercedes-Benz dealership construction In Australia, by a long margin at the time, and they nicknamed it the Taj Mahal. It was so fancy, it had marble, and it was tall ceilings, and it was, you know, really amazing. Lots of glass.

What I noticed was on our customer satisfaction scores. You know, when I started there, their problem they were having was they had the lowest score in Australia for customer satisfaction. And I’m like, how could this be possible? It’s such a beautiful place. And then I realized – the expectation of the customer, the promise being made visually when they walked in, was so high. And then when the delivery or the performance was not meeting that, they got absolutely caned on their performance.

And then my next job after this, I went to one of the most rundown, ramshackle places. They were in a rented premises that had pink walls with water stain marks on the ceiling. Like, it was a temporary place while they were building a new dealership.

Greg: Yep.

James: So it was probably quite comfortably the worst facility in Australia. And the customer satisfaction scores were actually pretty good. Again, it was this reinforcement of, expectation was very low.

Greg: Yeah.

James: And it was easy to exceed the expectations. So a few points here. If you’re going to up your brand and design and you can deliver the result to match, then overall, you’ll be able to charge more.

Greg: Yes.

James: You will attract better customers, and you’ll attract better staff and team members, and you’ll attract better suppliers, and you’ll be held up in a higher position by your peers out there in the marketplace.

The power of branding

And I would say, having a consistent brand over many years with reliable performance and getting only good recommendations, yes, it’s definitely paid off for me to reinvest in my brands. And it’s really one of the first things I do now when I have a new business.

And I started two new businesses this year. And one of the very first things we did is improve the brand. We had a nice logo and design. And coming from Mercedes-Benz, you know, I’m really familiar with brand guidelines, and why you need to get clear on like, what’s the personality of your company? Who is it trying to be? What’s the promise being made?

They were so fussy with brand guidelines, they would come out to our dealership with a paint micrometer, or whatever they call this tool, and check the color of the blue on the poles out the front of the dealership.

Greg: Oh, really?

James: If it wasn’t the exact right color, they would take money from your bonus payment. And if you ever published anything, it had to go through head office for approval, in terms of the spacing between the star and the name and the font, the hyphens. Every single piece of material, from newspapers through to sign writing on the window, had to be approved by head office, or there would be heavy penalties.

So that’s why companies like Mercedes-Benz have such brand integrity, because they enforce it. So even though we’re a tiny company, we want to have brand integrity.

That’s why we’ve asked you to provide us things like, when we do lead magnets, we’ve asked for a standardized lead magnet layout that we can use each time so that we have a consistent look and feel with our audience. That’s why we want to use the, you know, the current updated version of our logo on every single piece of material and get rid of any old instances of it anywhere possible, so that it’s a standard, consistent look and feel that our clients expect from us and feel comfortable with.

And in times of difficulty when the market goes into turmoil, they will move very strongly towards brands that have a reliable and trustworthy and safe reputation versus a risky, flighty, unknown or constantly-changing brand, which is pretty much a common thing in the online space.

Greg: It is.

James: Change, like, on a seasonal basis. And it does not build trust, it erodes trust, and that’s why they churn customers.

Greg: I couldn’t agree more. I think the last time we redesigned SilverCircle was like four or five years ago, and now we’ve just done it recently, and that’s probably when we’ll design it again. You know?

James: It’s a very stable, consistent brand. And you don’t need to change stuff. If you were to have a look at some of the top-end brands of anything from whiskey through to watches – like, take Rolex. Rolex Daytona has more or less stayed core for a long time. There’s been slight changes to the bezel or the band, but the essence of the product is very similar.

Evolution or revolution?

You would say the changes to SilverCircle would be more of an evolution than a revolution. I think that’s a good distinction. Because sometimes you need a revolution.

Greg: Yeah.

James: If your brand’s sh*t, you need to have a revolution. You need to just, like, level up. Wholesale level up. Out with the old, in with the – like, tip the whole thing out. If it’s going well and performing, you want to just evolve it.

And I’d say, you know, SuperFastBusiness is an interesting one, because originally I used to run a brand called Internet Marketing Speed. And as my brand matured and grew up out of the internet marketing space and more into the general business space, it was time to wrap all of my websites up.

Because I had a lot of websites. I had BuyWithBonus.com, I had InternetMarketingSpeed, I had FastWebFormula. I had ATLWeb, SuperFast Websites, SEOPartner, LinkJuice. So, all of these websites. I ended up just rolling them up into one website with the exception of SilverCircle at the time, because that’s a premium brand and it needs to sit separately.

And it’s interesting to note that AMG now have their own showrooms separate from the Mercedes-Benz ones.

Greg: Oh, really.

James: So it’s worth really sometimes separating out brand. Strategically, it can make a lot of sense. Toyota does it with Lexus, you know? They’ve got Toyota, and then they’ve got their Luxury Export US division, aka Lexus. There’s a separate brand with a premium positioning. Because you’re not going to get someone to pay a premium for Toyota. You have to brand it differently to get that premium.

Greg: Yes.

Good copy counts

James: And yeah, since I consolidated, SuperFastBusiness just made sense. And over time, yeah, it was a bit scrappy in the beginning, and then as we just improved it. And then as you make other investments, such as, and importantly, sales copy.

Greg: Yes.

James: The words on your page are still vitally important. Because at the end of the day, if you only had a white page with black words, that will sell more than a beautiful design that has no words.

Greg: Totally.

James: Like, ultimately. So the words are still super important. But as you invest more into your sales copy – and it does cost money for good sales copy – you should leverage that copy with the right look and feel and brand perception. And by combining those things, with consistency and results.

So now I’ve got like four ingredients here: great design, great copy, being very consistent and not shocking your audience, and then delivering on all the promises. You’ve got a recipe for a really valuable business.

Greg: Exactly. And that’s what the main changes are on both those sides, putting more case studies into them and showing that you get really good results for people, so it upholds those brand values.

Some really good results

And so, just speaking of results, if you think about a customer that you’ve helped, what’s one of many case studies or a really good result you’ve had from just one of your customers?

James: Ryan Levesque went from $1 million to $10 million per year revenue while I was coaching him.

Greg: Wow, there you go. That’s pretty amazing. Yeah.

James: Ezra Firestone, he went from maybe a couple of hundred thousand a year to $35 million a year while I was coaching him. I still am coaching him.

Greg: Yeah. And you’re my coach, and you’ve helped my business go from six figures to seven figures, which is incredible.

James: Yeah. Your business has gone tremendously well.

I’ve got another guy, Mike. He was a teacher making 100 and something thousand dollars a year. And they’re doing a couple of million dollars a year now a few years later, and he’s got a couple of dozen sub teachers in his business. I love seeing that kind of growth.

Another side of success

But more importantly, you know, the numbers are great and the revenue is great. But that’s really only one side of it. What we don’t see is that a lot of people I’m working with used to be workaholics and stressed. And now they get to take time off, they’re more relaxed, they have more confidence, and they have better relationships with their families and their friends.

They’re doing more hobbies and sports – a lot of my audience ride or surf or ski or whatever. They’re finding the joyful fun that they used to have when they were a kid back as an adult. And I think that’s sort of the unsung side of life these days.

And that’s what Work Less Make More, the book, available on Amazon and Audible, is all about. It’s about hey, you know, maybe money isn’t the only goal here, guys and girls. Maybe we’re chasing all these money but burning our life up.

And you know, I see a lot of sad stories pushed by entrepreneurs that tap into some distorted script of how you need to live your life, that’s potentially not useful for most of the people that are buying into it.

Greg: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I was going to lead to that book. I mean, because, okay, it sounds like you do a lot as well. But can you just let people know how many hours a week you would work on average?

James: Twenty hours a week.

Greg: Twenty hours a week. And you spend the rest of the time doing what?

James: Surf every day. I spend a lot of time with my family. I cook. I watch Netflix from time to time. I read books. We go for walks.

Greg: That’s amazing.

James: Basically, it’s amazing how you can fill a day with nothing.

Greg: I love it.

James: I worked very, very hard up until probably five years ago, and started to sort of lean in more into slower living. I don’t mind cooking some pork ribs with smoky barbecue sauce. It might take two hours to cook. I’ll just mull around on my Instagram, on my phone, sitting on the chair out in my back deck.

This whole time, you know, while I’m doing that, my business is still making sales and ticking over. Because there’s leverage. I’m not endorsing being lazy or doing nothing. To be very clear, I’m trying to have my investments go to work for me. You know, they’re growing in value over time.

My team is doing projects to help my business, and they’re happy to do that. They have a good life as well. We’re very unstrict in our business. And our customers are getting great results. And they want to be able to do what I’m doing. They don’t resent me for being able to surf every day.

Greg: It’s inspiring.

James: They would prefer to do that, instead of hustling, grinding, working themselves to the bone. You know, waking up at night in a cold sweat because they don’t know where the next bill is going to be covered from. You know, they want to be in a really secure position where they have time freedom, they have money freedom, they have relationship freedom, basically removing all the compromises that most people have.

Greg: I love it, James. It’s incredible. And that’s why you’re my business coach.

A few years’ forecast

And just finally, so where do you see your business and life heading in the next few years?

James: I really have set it to sort of what might be classified as a semi-retirement mode, like a very sustainable mode. In short, I’m going to summarize more of my information into books and courses.

Both of those things are leveraged. It’s good for me. It’s actually hard work to get the ideas from my head into a book structure. There’s a bit of effort involved. But it’s also going to be really accessible. Like, thousands and thousands upon thousands of people have read my book and listened to my Audible.

And it’s good. I can have an impact. I get really nice emails from people and comments, and people have had transformations. And it’s nice to feel that. I guess it’s one form of feeling significant.

Greg: Yeah.

James: Which is probably a deep down human desire.

Greg: And you want to leave a legacy.

James: I’ll continue to create courses, because they are very leveraged. I will continue to coach people in a fairly leveraged way because we use a community and ongoing training. It’s a good routine that I can sustain. I’ll continue to do podcasts, but I’ll focus more on topics that are probably even more deep, maybe more emotional, maybe open up a little more.

People love it when I share more inside information, even things that I find boring. Like I was sharing my daily routine with someone the other day, and they thought that was amazing. So that was interesting.

And I’ll continue to partner with the right businesses who I can add a lot of value for and I enjoy working with and who I trust and who want to be in that sort of very small club of sorts of business owners. That’s sort of my investment strategy, is to grow other people’s businesses as if they were mine, and to let them have the lion’s share of it, which is kind of cool as well. Because those things last.

Greg: Yeah. That’s absolutely excellent, James. Well, thank you so much for this interview. Really appreciate your time.

James: It’s always a pleasure, Greg. You know, I need to say thank you to you. Without your design talents, and inputs, my business would not be what it is now. When people come to my website, when they see our branded templates, when they download our materials, when they see my book cover on Amazon, when they go to my personal page, there’s, there’s the touch of Studio1 and Greg Merrilees in all of those projects.

That is setting up an expectation that wouldn’t be possible if we hadn’t put in the effort, if you hadn’t done the briefs, if you didn’t have such amazing design abilities, we wouldn’t be getting the results we get. So I appreciate that so much.

Greg: Thank you, buddy. Yeah, hopefully there’s years and years to come of that.

James: I’m sure there will be. Yeah. Thanks, mate. We’ll speak soon.

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