680 – Using Resilience To Move Through Obstacles With Travis Jones

Podcast: Download (Duration: 30:27 — 28.0MB)

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Travis Jones

Podcast topics:

01:23 – A $10 million perspective
04:05 – What does success really mean?
07:08 – How to take on adversity
09:24 – Guarding against complacency
12:24 – A gun to the head scenario
16:28 – Why the software?
19:41 – Where to spend the time
21:17 – Routine and resilience
24:42 – A change in values
26:44 – A married partnership
27:56 – Advice to close with

Are you on your own business journey right now? Develop the mindset you need to succeed in business with James’s help

Transcription:

James: James Schramko here. Welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. This is Episode 680. And we’re going to be talking about how to build resilience to move through obstacles. And for that, I brought along an expert in this subject matter, Travis Jones, or as his friends call him, TJ, from RBTGyms.com. Welcome, Travis.

Travis: Thanks for having me today. I’m really excited to be on the podcast.

James: My goal by the end of this podcast is that I’ll be able to call you TJ and we’ll be friends.

Travis: Looking forward to it.

James: You’ve got an interesting story, because you have had some significant business success. And I can’t help but feel that the philosophies you’ve been teaching people in the fitness arena, have also flowed across into your life and into business. Would you agree with that statement?

Travis: I completely agree. I think anything that comes in from sport into fitness definitely comes across into business.

A $10 million perspective

James: Right. So let’s talk about the journey. Because at the higher level of people who I’m coaching, one of the most stated goals (and to put that in perspective, they’re already making somewhere over $500,000 a year in profit, and generally a couple of million dollars a year, and they have a small team and an existing business that already has an offer that’s converting well, and they’re having some scaling challenges) but the number one stated goal is they want to make $10 million a year. And you’ve achieved that goal of $10 million a year in revenue. And I just want to get your feedback, having already achieved that. And for perspective, this is in a predominantly, an offline business, in the gymnasium market, which we’ll talk about more. How did that change things for you when you reached it? And was it a milestone for you as well, just like it is for many of the people I speak to?

Travis: To be honest, I think I was constantly chasing goals. And you know, when I had one gym, I wanted four and four, I wanted eight, and then I wanted 12 and 20. I think the $10 million goal for me wasn’t really a goal because I think as entrepreneurs, we keep shifting the goalposts, which sometimes leads to unfulfillment, and we kind of feel a bit lost. So for me, it was more so I have a goal of 10,000 members in our gyms. And we’re a little bit higher-priced gyms, so 10,000 members is about 50 million. And I sort of had to shift it to more process-oriented goals rather than this outcome-oriented goal, and being more happy with the journey rather than the outcome. I think that was the biggest thing I was focused on.

James: Right. So you got your goal, and then you think, okay, I’ve got another goal. And it moves. I think Dan Sullivan calls that the horizon, where you’re always looking off into the distance. And it’s definitely been a subject that we’ve talked about a lot on this particular podcast, I’ve had guests who have made it all, done it all, even one case got paid out over 100 million dollars for the sale of a company. And he still didn’t quite feel like he’d been satisfied. Not that he didn’t reach it, but it just didn’t fill the gap that he thought he would when he had all this money. Probably much like a lotto winner, who ends up not having all that money a few years later, like factually speaking. So I think there has to be a mindset status that’s adjusted. So how will you know when you’ve reached enough? Like, for example, why 10,000 members? Like, is that a number you pluck out of the air? Or is there some market share you’re looking for? Or was it linked to anything in particular?

Travis: I think for us, like I would like to let go of the business in, you know, five, six years, and 10,000 members gives us a great benchmark, as far as you know, selling the company. And I know that will be close to 50 gyms at that point. And I’ll have to either shift and go, you know, I’m going to go all in international, or I’ll let go of the company in Australia. And I think that’s why the 10,000 member mark is really there for me.

What does success really mean?

I think for me, when I had to shift from being unfulfilled, it was looking at more so like what success actually meant to me. And success, I sort of pivoted away from end monetary goal, whereas money is great, I think it was more success. I had to build around the lifestyle I was living, the family I had, and enjoying my business rather than just working towards this end goal that, I think if anyone’s ever achieved a goal, the moments that you achieve the goal feels great. And then, you know, just minutes afterwards, you’re like, oh, was that it? So I think I had to really shift what success meant, so I then could feel happy on the journey, more so.

James: Early on in your career, you had a sort of sporty background and you were participating at an elite sporting level in rugby league as a teenager. And then you had a health issue and you had to stop that professional career. Do you think your desire to reach a certain point with your current business? Is you repeating that cycle where you feel like it could end, and you need to make sure that you bank out of it okay?

Travis: It quite honestly could be. Like, I think for me, I think every industry has a point where you want to get in before the crash. I think the fitness industry isn’t going to crash, you know, anytime soon, but is definitely going to have a point where people are going to start taking pills and not going to start moving. I think there’s always room for experience. But I’ve been in the industry for like 16 years now, I think after that, sort of 20, 22 years into the industry. You know, and focusing, I would say, for the last eight years, I think it’ll be just the next challenge for me. And I’m constantly trying to find the next challenge.

Like, having meningococcal hands, you know, I flatlined a couple of times, and you think your life is over. And after coming out of the hospital and losing my career, I think it’s more so, it’s understanding that every single day that you live is precious. So you know, for me, it’s doing everything I can and putting everything into RBT and to get it to the point where I believe I want to take it and then sort of, you know, letting it go to someone else.

James: Nice. In Australia, of course, RBT is well known for being random breath testing. Was that on your mind when you developed this name? Were you involved in the naming of the business?

Travis: To be honest, I actually didn’t even think about it back in the day. It was resolved by Australia, I didn’t put two and two together. And however though I do get a lot of screen captures of you know, like Foxtel and things like that saying RBT’s on TV. I was like, No, it’s just random breath testing.

James: I had a funny thing with SuperFastBusiness. A large English telco started a little regional division and started springing up calling themselves SuperFastBusiness. And every time I went to London, and people found out that I was from SuperFastBusiness, they would look at me like I’m working for BHP or some massive corporation. It was kind of mistaken identity. Gladly, I’ve been able to squeeze them out of the market now, and back to owning my own brand. I don’t think you’ll ever own RBT in the mind of an Australian.

How to take on adversity

But I am interested, you know, when you were faced with this adversity, and you decided to have your own business, what were the steps that you went through? Because I know quite a few people listening to this are yet to or just in the process of those early stages of having a business. And it will be interesting to know what some of the steps you took were to go from zero to that $10-million-a-year revenue.

Travis: I think one of the biggest things to start with, I was just a personal trainer or a subcontractor inside a large, franchise-based business, and I was just a franchisee doing my thing. And I want to help some people, I thought I had more potential than I was currently giving to the world. And I think you ask yourself, can I give more? And I did. But the problem is I had no capital. I was one of those people that really never saved any cash whatsoever. I did, however, write some form of a business plan, the only one I’ve actually ever written. And we tried to sit down with 50 people, that’s actually the 51st person. They all said no, that they’re not going to give me the $25,000 I wanted for 4 percent of this imaginary company that I tried to tell them it was going to be great. And the next person, they said yes, and I got $25,000. And that first 25K gave me the ability to get the lease, start the business.

And you know, I couldn’t really afford to get into the gym and my house. So I had to move into that first gym. And I think the biggest thing is, it’s like you go all chips in. I sold my car to get that money for you know, some equipment and you know, some of the bonds. And if you are starting a business, I think it is, it’s going, I’m going to go all chips in on this because I’m going to make it work no matter what.

James: Right. So I’ve used the metaphor before of like, Tarzan swinging from one vine to another. You didn’t really have the opportunity to keep hanging on to the old vine while you’re looking for the new one, because you had your sickness and you were out, it’s not going to happen anymore. Like that vine broke, you were flying through the air, hoping you could grab something.

I used to work with Mercedes-Benz and some of my wealthiest customers taught me that at some point, you’re going to have to eat beans, like literally eat beans out of a tin. Or, you know, crawl over broken glass to get to the other side. There will be a transition phase of difficulty in most people. And it even plays out on the big screen, of course, with the hero’s journey storyline. We expect that there’s going to be a difficult phase that we’re going to grow from, and it looks like this is what happened to you.

Guarding against complacency

How do you protect yourself from getting too comfortable and content and complacent in your business now, when you do have things going well and you’ve got money flowing in, you know what you’re doing, you’ve got good reputation, your gym’s running like an actual business. Obviously, you can’t personally service all the clients in all of your gyms, so you must have a team and structure. How do you protect yourself from getting too comfy?

Travis: I think for me, it’s really having a great team and having to set that vision. Like, you know, what John Maxwell says, right? You have to have that lore of navigation. So they need to know where we’re going. And they need to have a big enough vision that provides them hope. And you know, it gets them to want to grow within the company as well. So I think actually outlining a vision for them, having that BHAG that they’re inspiring to achieve. And that obviously keeps me in line as with us having great working with them, to make sure we’re on top of that. So it’s looking at the whole daily huddle. You know, we do it at 10:21 every single day, and having our weekly manager meetings and making sure that the different regional managers are doing the same thing for them. And the business is more of a humming nature, moving towards this large goal together, because everyone understands their place in the business. And it’s not really my goal anymore. It’s the company’s goal, it’s their goal.

James: Right. So just unpacking that, you’ve sort of covered the North Star principle. You mentioned BHAG, just to interpret that for the audience. It’s big, hairy, audacious goal. And then you talk about the daily huddle. I’m sure someone’s going to ask, what do you actually do in your daily huddle? How long does it last, and what’s the framework you use?

Travis: Yeah, so for us, like scaling up or anything like that, we’re saying, talking about the daily huddle, what we’re looking at is, for us it’s at 10:21 every single day for the management team, like the regional managers, and myself. And we start on like, what was your win for the last 24 hours? And then we’ll go through essentially what the critical numbers are. So for us, we have five critical numbers in the business, looking at, you know, cancellations, looking at memberships growing, looking at suspensions, looking at arrears, anything like that. And after we go through those critical numbers, if anything’s alarming, I’ll tell the guys, let’s take it offline after the call and have a bit of an in-depth conversation. We move from that into any obstacles anyone’s facing that we can quickly overcome, and past that we’ll look at their daily focus. So the call lasts normally between like, nine to 11 minutes, and we cover wins, numbers, obstacles, focus, so I sort of have a snapshot where I can talk to my regionals who look after every single gym, and then have a call with them individually if I need to help them overcome any specific roadblocks.

James: Right. Well, that’s really effective, especially when you’ve got a lot of people. How many people would you have in the business now under your command?

Travis: About 80 in that business.

James: Right. Yeah, it’s almost exactly what I had running a Mercedes dealership. Now online, we have a very similar thing, actually. Our critical snapshot of numbers comes through every single day and is shared with the team in our Slack, which is virtually our online office. We share win, challenge, and one thing, which is pretty much wins, obstacles and focus. So that framework I know to be very effective. It’s the same one I use for high-level coaching students, and I can see how that’s moving the business forward.

A gun to the head scenario

At some point, you decided you’re going to branch out, so acquiring all these gyms, and growing them and rolling out the system was the foundation or the start of that building. You’ve also added other elements. You started coaching other businesses, and also you’ve gone into the software as a service division. I’d love to know, what were the triggers for those decisions?

Travis: To be honest, this is probably a bit of a crazy one, the coaching business. And about two years into opening RBT, it was going well and people were reaching out to me saying, can you help me grow my business? And I really sort of held off a bit. And my first gym was six doors down from a bikie hangout. And, you know, there was always people around the streets and all the rest of it. And it was pretty crazy.

So growing the gyms, it was actually like, some devious people down the street. So if you’ve ever watched, like, Sons of Anarchy, that’s the kind of thing that was on our street where I opened up this gym. And they’d been there for two years, and clearly, someone wants to money and they said, I need $20,000 off you over the next seven days for looking after you for the last two years, or I’m going to kill you. And these guys weren’t to mess around with. And I was like, I don’t have $20,000 right now, what am I going to do? Well, what I actually did was, I’m going to start coaching. I’m going to create this eight-week online coaching program, where I charge $8,000, it’s gonna be $1,000 deposit, and I’m going to guarantee I make them $16,000 back in eight weeks, or I would double their money back. So I was trying to get an amazing risk reversal. And that was back in the day when Facebook ads had started and leads were two cents and I was crushing life. So I knew I could do it. I put this great offer out to the marketplace, and within that next seven days I went past 20 sales. It was crazy. I went past 20 sales, got 20K revenue, and I paid them this money. And it was literally like a gun to the head scenario that spiralled this coaching business. And from there, we had 100 signups to this 8K program, and after that eight-week program, we ended up doing this mastermind that was about $35,000 to $50,000 a year, depends on what type of business you are, and I had 40 people on that. I grew this, like, $2 million business in about 16 weeks because of this process.

James: Well, you know, it’s a common technique that copywriters use. They use a gun to the head metaphor for, what would you write if you had a gun to your head? And you had the literal situation. I remember actually, I used to debt collect at one point for General Motors, and I was repossessing a lot of cars, Holden cars around Sydney, and I was down in the southwest of Sydney one night, very late in Casula. And my customer, he’d been to the Vietnam War, he came back, he shot somebody, he then got released. And then he was in bank robberies, and then he got released and then now I was repossessing his car and he’s getting super agitated, as the tow truck driver was trying to start it and it kept stalling. And he looked across from from the couch, and he said, “If I didn’t have a baby right now, I would shoot you. I just want you to know that.” I thought, I really got to get a different job. It’s funny how these things shape you. It can be quite traumatic, or it can be sort of fire in the belly to harden you up. And it kind of makes ordinary situations seem super mild, you know, by contrast, right? So I imagine anything that’s happened to you in business since then is not quite as bad as that situation.

Travis: Yeah. I think there’s these like, sort of points in business and life, like the meningococcal when I was, you know, dying, was one; the sort of next point was another. And I made like, this money that I’d never thought, and over the next eight weeks, I did like $100,000 in a day. And I was like, this is crazy. Like, it truly opened my eyes to what was possible. And from there, it’s like, okay, cool, like, let’s now open up more gyms. And from then they will start asking me about doing their marketing for them, and we started an agency. And the gyms kept opening and the agency grew and that coaching keeps going. And I think truly, you know, we don’t know what we’re capable of, in business or really in life, until we are sort of pushed to our limits.

Why the software?

James: And then you went into software.

Travis: Yeah.

James: So is that because it was a need that all your gyms had, that you were solving your own problem, and then other people want it too?

Travis: Most definitely. Like, I think for us, you know, it has a couple of points inside the software. I think a year and a half into RBT, I sort of went online for a little bit and started this, transform in 28. I really didn’t know much about online marketing then. I knew a little bit about trying to get affiliates. It was pretty crazy. I was like using Member360 and Infusionsoft, and I was making like, WordPress sites with OptimizePress plugins, it was pretty crazy back then. Back then, I started this program, it was 28 days. And it went into like, a rolling 28-day program. And I started it with a Facebook group for free for 100 people. And then after that, I got them to pay me whatever they thought, and then they get it for next month for free if they bring in a person.

And then I started going, oh, maybe they’ll get gyms in on this, I end up with 32 gyms in on this and I gave them a percentage of the monthly fee. And within five months, we had 5000 members. And it was only 10 bucks a month, but we were doing $50,000 in revenue. I never even paid a cent on marketing. And it was going great for about a year and I was with an ex-business partner at a time and we sort of broke up as business partners. So I sort of shut down my business.

But I always wanted to get back into the online space in sort of that regard. But instead of going you know, B2C, like business to consumer, I wanted to go into more of a B2B space, which is why we sort of build this software where we can help coaches and help more people. And then we’ll end up shifting into a B2C space in about a year when we have more data around that. But it’s growing at where, you know, we can get them on board, we can help them with their coaching, with their members, with their experience, with their results, and give them every single data point that they need.

And this is why we wanted to create it, because I wanted this as well, I wished I had this. And we just hit the point that we had the ability to create it ourselves. And then from there, we’re rolling out the affiliate program where they can start, obviously, making money by getting their friends on board as well. And that’s just starting out, it’s going great. We haven’t had to spend a cent on marketing as yet.

James: Yeah, that’s fantastic. It’s amazing how many parallels we have, from being sick to being threatened to being involved with OptimizePress. Here’s a funny backstory. I remember this little kid on the Warrior Forum years and years ago selling templates. And one of my clients who’d bought XSitePro, which I was promoting as an affiliate, bought some templates, and he wanted me to make them work in XSitePro. So I got in touch with this kid, called James Dyson, and I asked him, “Is it okay if I convert these to XSitePro?” And he said, “Sure.” And I said, “How about we sell them together, and we’ll split the profits?” And he said, “Yeah, that’s cool.” And then I said to him, “You know, you’ve got these great designs. You should put them inside a web tool so that people can just select the things.” And that’s how we pretty much came up with OptimizePress. And then James Dyson was my first million-dollar student online. And in just two months from now, him and I will be floating around the Maldives, doing a surf trip together. So we’ve stayed in touch the whole time.

But then, I think it’s really good to keep refining tools around your own needs. So I’ve recently been developing this software called 10XPRO with a friend of mine, John Lint, and it’s really solving a lot of the problems for people who want to have memberships and courses and funnels and all that sort of stuff.

Where to spend the time

So I can see how you’ve ended up with doing a service, having your own business, doing the software. I imagine there’s probably potential for affiliate stuff, and it’d be an endless train of people who would want you to help them, if you would agree to it. So I’m wondering if you have a filter for deciding how to spend your time on each part of your portfolio?

Travis: Yeah, it’s a tough one. I do, to be honest. Like, I sort of spend my mornings for the first, you know, four hours of when I start work on purely RBT. And then I sort of shift gears. And when I say RBT, I start with, you know, reading, then I start with content creation, and I have my huddles, and I go into any meetings I need to have.

And then from there, I’ll go into essentially the next business a couple of days a week, which is the software as a service, which is Keystone. I don’t need to spend a lot of time on that. I’m not a developer or anything of that nature. But we look at how we’re going with this, is it on track, more features are looking great, how is the marketing, I also look at the marketing side of things. And we’ll do that two times a week. I’ll spend one day of the week in the agency talking to the guys, how are we going with that? And my afternoon is a lot on the coaching aspect. And it’s really trying to leverage as much as possible. So I don’t really do too much one-on-one coaching, it’s mostly like, leveraging into group formats. I’ll spend the afternoon doing an hour or so in, you know, content creation around that.

I think that’s how I enjoy my day to be broken up. It keeps me shifting through gears, and I get to finish my day with content creation, which I enjoy. And I get to start my day with the learning and then interim meetings, because they’re probably the things I’d actually put off more than anything else. So I sort of hold that Eat That Frog thing, I guess.

Routine and resilience

James: So in terms of resilience, do you find having this routine and structure is what overcomes the resistance?

Travis: To be honest, for me, I think I was a personal trainer for so many years, and you know, you literally have to block out 15 minutes for me to go to the bathroom.

My first year in business after being just a PT and staying in my gym, I resented to having a schedule, I really resented it. I refused to do anything that was scheduled. I’d just do anything whatever time I wanted. But what I realized is I was just lost, and for me truly to be productive. I work well with a physical journal, or a physical diary. And then I just block it out from like, 5 AM to 7 PM at night. But the 5 AM is when I wake up, I’ll go train, I’ll spend time with my kids. And I’ll be there until like nine in the morning. And then they’ll go to creche, and that’s when my day starts. And I have my hours blocked in, my 90-minute meridians, so I can sort of focus 90 minutes at a time. You know, I have my times where I can go for a walk and make sure I’m not just sitting on my butt in front of my computer all day. And it has the times where I definitely switch off and I go home and I be with my family. I think for me, a rhythm where I know that I’m productive, I have written in front of me what I need to do, not just like, I’m going to do marketing, but the outcome for that hour that I’m trying to achieve. I’m very much a win-or-lose kind of person. So at the end of the day, I look at it and tally up my wins. It’s like, did I win or lose? If I really win more days than I lose, then I know that the businesses are moving forward.

James: Interesting. Yeah. I was like you, actually, I didn’t want structure when I quit my job. I thought freedom was being able to do what I want, when I want, how I want. The reality, of course, is everyone just dives in and starts pulling you apart unless you partition it off. So I’ve put a ring fence around three days a week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, the days I’m prepared to do external activities. And then that gives me Fridays and Mondays and the weekends off. But it took a while to get to that point. But I think having that solid routine is how you actually develop freedom. Because by default, all the time that’s outside your scheduler is yours, and you can do whatever you want with it. And it sounds like you’ve got kids as well.

Travis: Yeah, I got two little ones.

James: And so do you actually measure your effective hourly rate? Do you ever have a look at your profit and divide it by the number of hours you work to get that and use that as a fine-tuning device?

Travis: To be honest, I did for a while with the one business. And now, essentially, when I move across the multiple businesses, I know what my, you know, talk about genius tasks are. And that’s, you know, the leadership style, leading people and helping them understand that tomorrow is better than today, giving them hope, getting by and showing them the future and also developing them. So now I just sit with my wage across the businesses. I don’t really look at what my hourly rate is anymore, but I definitely did when we just had RBT.

Travis maintains his physical fitness

Travis: I do. You know, for me, I get to the South Melbourne gym, I sort of get there just after 4:30 in the morning, and I’ll train by myself before anyone gets in there. I like to sort of have my alone time training with like, no music whatsoever. And I’ll train and I’ll have my alone time and then sort of get out before anyone gets in, just so I can have a nice peace and quietness every single day.

James: Do you go to bed early?

Travis: I do. I normally go to bed, I sort of put a hard rule on 10 PM. But you know, 9:30 is my general time I’ll try and get to sleep by.

A change in values

James: Yeah, that makes sense. It’s a recurring topic on this podcast, we love our sleep. If you’re going to get up early, you probably want to go to bed early. It sounds like it’s working for you. Have you noticed yourself changing as you get older?

Travis: Most definitely. I think especially after kids. I think for me, in my 20s, I was so significance driven. You know, I got some money, I started buying some watches, I bought a nice car. And you know, having all the significance to try and prove that I was successful, or whatever the definition of success is these days. And I sort of shifted out of that.

And I was trying to understand for myself, like, why am I trying to seek validation from society, when success is really enjoying what you’re doing, and being the right type of character. That’s my definition of success, and being the right person for my partner and my family. And as I grew, you know, patience must grow with young children, which gives you the ability to have more patience inside your business. You start to understand how to choose the correct emotions on a moment-to-moment level, which allows you to make better conscious decisions. I think, for me, that’s resilience, right? Like, it’s the capacity to recover quickly. And I think if we can all have a punch in your face, you know, scenario as Mike Tyson was said, Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. But it’s like, what emotions do you then choose? And then what actions do you choose from those emotions, which is going to change the outcome that you’re going to get your day?

James: You want to address people who actually use the word that I would use to describe what you’re going through, that search for significance. I once actually purchased the domain, significant.com, on auction with GoDaddy. And I remember I was out in the city, it was at night, I pulled out my laptop, it was very late, it was on a US schedule. And I purchased it and won it. And then like a week later, I still hadn’t been transferred the domain and I chased it up and then they pulled the rug from me. They said sorry, we weren’t supposed to sell it. It wasn’t supposed to be in the auction, the owner had renewed it. So you’re not getting it. I was pretty beaten up about it. Because I think that would be a great one-word domain, and I got it for a great auction price as well. So it’s a funny thing.

A married partnership

Now, you work with your wife in your business?

Travis: I do indeed.

James: So I imagine you’re using all the emotional resilience skills possible from time to time. Do you get on really well? Does she keep you honest in certain areas? I’ve often found you can have a complimentary force in that regard.

Travis: Yeah, most definitely. I think like, Liv, my wife, she’s definitely my rock. I am, at times, the bipolar I guess, entrepreneur, which I have, you know, 7000 emotions in a day, which I’ve learned to control over the years. But you know, I’m very on the risk side of things. And, you know, she very much keeps me level-headed and focused on what we’re trying to do right now. She is amazing at client fulfillment, she’s sort of fantastic at copywriting. And, you know, she really brings a different aspect that I can’t even bring to the company. I think for her, I was very fortunate that her dad was very entrepreneurial, had a very successful business. So she grew up inside that environment. I think if you’re married to an entrepreneur, and you know, you aren’t ready for it, I think the relationship can be tough. But I think if you find the right person, and they’re ready for a rocky road, and sometimes the uncertainty that is life, I think the relationship can be amazing.

James: Terrific advice.

Advice to close with

So what would you advise someone who’s listening to this, and they’re sort of midway through that journey? What things would you advise them to look out for? Or to get into earlier than what you did?

Travis: I think what some of the biggest things is, my downfalls for me personally, is I trust every single person. I don’t do really much fact-checking, I’m like, Oh, that sounds like a good idea. You sound like a good guy. Let’s do it together. So I guess it is, sometimes, maybe, you do dig a little bit deeper before you dive into anything. And you know, I’ve sort of been burned with businesses in the past along the way with that. So it is definitely a big thing for us to do. But also, I would say that anyone just needs to start to, like we talked about before, start to get in better habits of understanding what it is to win, what it is to lose. And you know, your bank account isn’t winning, and your bank account isn’t losing. That doesn’t define you. Because if I took your business off of you tomorrow, then who really are you? And more so, identify with yourself – you can be an achiever, or you can be whatever it is you need to be. I think for me, that’s why I really like having these process-oriented daily wins. And, you know, for me having a daily win that’s outside of business, and I think that really surrounds me personally as a person and what I was going for. So I think it’s not defining everything in your business, it’s having daily wins, and that will lead to more fulfillment on a daily basis, which will give you a better state, so as you can be in a manager state better, which will allow you to focus better on your business.

James: Well, Travis, I can see how you’ve been successful, you have a really tremendous attitude, and you just come across as a really decent person. I’ve never met you before or spoken to you prior to this call, and I feel like I’ve really got to know you a lot better. And to share that journey with us is very generous because you’ve put your body on the line, you’ve learned the lessons, you’ve got some interesting tales to tell and you’re seeing success in multiple areas of life and business. And it sounds like a great environment for your own kids to be coming up now in that environment and to be prepared for the future, because there’s one thing that they say good leaders need, and kids need especially, and that is resilience. So it’s been such a pleasure to chat with you. And I hope people go and look you up. I’m sure sure you be a great option for them if they’re in your geographical location. RBTGyms.com would be a good starting point.

Travis: Most definitely.

James: Well, thank you so much.

Travis: Appreciate being on here today, James. It was a pleasure.

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