577 – How To Use Algorithms In Your Marketing With Justin Brooke

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Justin Brooke

In the episode:

03:22 – Just a set of rules
05:15 – Algorithms applied in business
08:32 – Automated versus manual
11:30 – The effect on conversions
12:49 – How complicated is it?
14:00 – The stage we’re at
15:48 – New technology, old marketing
17:45 – Lessons from a tropical mastermind
24:32 – The most circled item
26:01 – Biggest webinar ever
27:55 – Where Justin’s arrived
30:22 – How was James’s book?

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Transcription:

James: James Schramko here, welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. Today I have one of my longer-term online buddies on the call. Welcome, Justin Brooke.

Justin: Hey man, thanks for having me.

James: I love catching up with you, Justin, you’re an enigmatic entrepreneur. And right now, I think you probably have one of the best newsletters in the entire online marketing space. So, congratulations!

Justin: Thank you, I’ll take that coming from you. That’s a high compliment.

James: I don’t let much into my inbox, but I do appreciate your newsletter.

Justin: I know. I appreciate that.

James: What I like about it is that it’s punchy. It always gets to the point. It’s raw and honest. And there’s also one you do that sends a summary of resources. It’s kind of like a clipping service of things that are important to know. And even though I’m not a hands-on practitioner of the types of marketing campaigns that you’re educating people about, I like to just keep a finger on the pulse in that industry.

And I also like to watch you as you’ve had this stratospheric growth from taking an internship in someone else’s business to being a market leader. So I just wanted to publicly congratulate you and say, it’s just awesome to see that journey from the sidelines over many years. We’ve been connected for a long time, even since we were both doing very similar things in the SEO Space, and now we’ve sort of found our own paths. But I always love connecting up and seeing what’s fresh with you.

Justin: Absolutely. You as well, you used to have, I think it was called Launch Jacking? Was that what it was called?

James: I think I had a similar thing called Affiliate Pounce.

Justin: Yes!

James: Yeah, this whole concept of getting good affiliate commission checks whenever there was a new product launch, and sort of owning the space. There was actually another one of our friends, Peter Parks, was always competing with me as well. So a lot of my long-term friends, we sort of became aware of each other because we were taking up, hogging the whole front page for most of these product launches. The most successful one I did, I think I sold 86 $2000 products, and that actually started my very first online coaching community, because I gave that as the bonus. I gave a 60-day free bonus coaching, and then let people stay if they wanted to stay on. And this was back in 2009, and my community has been going ever since.

Justin: We were much younger, more aggressive men back then.

James: It’s funny, where I’m really not as competitive as I used to be and I’ve let ego aside and I just want to support and champion my previous competitors these days and acknowledge people who are doing a great job. And when I see good resources, I like to share them.

Algorithms explained

That’s why I invited you to come on this show. I wanted to see if you would be willing to talk about the things that you’ve been discovering and researching around algorithms. Because it’s certainly something that’s fascinated me ever since I discovered Charlie Munger’s mental models, and I’ve obviously been documenting my own formulas and checklists and diagnostic sheets. And I wrote about some of them in my book, some of the ideas or principles that have been guiding me. And I liked Ray Dalio’s book and then now you’re talking about it. I think it’s a great topic to bring to the market.

Firstly, if someone’s not aware of it, how would you describe algorithms, the way that you’re using them?

Justin: So, algorithms sound much more complicated than they really are. It’s just a set of rules. So, you know, something as simple as making sure that you, like if you know that you cannot afford more than a five dollar cost per lead, then setting a rule that any ad that has a higher cost per lead than five dollars immediately gets paused. That’s a very basic algorithm, but that’s what people need to understand – that it’s really just a sequence of rules.

James: Yeah. In fact, I think the first person to teach me about algorithms was my son. He’s got this amazing ability to solve a Rubik’s Cube or any one of those hexagonals, triangles, doesn’t matter. You give it to him scrambled and he will unscramble it and make it good again very quickly. And he said, “Dad, it’s easy. I’m just following an algorithm.” I’m like, “A what?” He goes, “An algorithm. It’s just a formula that no matter where you are, you can just supply the formula and you can end up with all the sides the right color.” And he was very young at this point. He was probably 9 or 10. So I’m like, OK, this kid is special. And this is the same kid who wouldn’t talk till he was about 4. We actually thought there was maybe something wrong with him because he just wouldn’t talk. But I think he just wasn’t stimulated enough to getting involved in the conversation.

The applications in business

So how are you applying algorithms in your marketing business and sharing these ideas with your students?

Justin: Yeah. So not to change the topic of the call, but I started getting involved with the Bitcoins and the cryptos, which led me to reading some books about the stock market and Ray Dalio. And I started learning about high-frequency trading and algorithmic trading where these people had sets of rules that would help them not lose money in the stock market. I would only take on X amount of risk, and I would only bet X amount of money, and we get out of the market after X percent of increase.

These are all rules, and I’m like, wait a minute. Those are the same things that I do with my ad campaigns. And it kind of dawned on me, and then I just started going deeper into algorithmic trading and then with Ray Dalio, his way of thinking. And then I read a book called, I think it’s called Algorithms of the Mind and it’s all about different computer algorithms, the way that computers make decisions. You can apply those to your own decisions to know when you’ve done enough job interviews or when you’ve seen enough apartments to make a choice of where you live.

And so I just started applying this stuff to my marketing with as simple as like I said, if your cost per leads get above X. Normally, it’s actually a certain point. So I would say, if there is more than ten conversions and the cost per conversion is above X, then pause this ad. Or if the cost is below X, my threshold, then increase the budget. So it’s a little bit of a set of rules that helps you not spend dangerously on your campaigns as well as how to increase your profits, because that’s really all trading is, is they’re trying to increase their upside and decrease their downside.

So I’m really just kind of learning about this stuff right now. And as I’m learning it, I’m writing my list and telling them, here’s how I’m applying it to me, here’s what I’m thinking about and that’s kind of what you’ve seen so far.

James: I love it. I think I’ve mentioned on this podcast before, venturing into Forex last year taught me a lot about myself and understanding risk was fascinating. If you start following Van Tharp and the R factor and realizing that if you have a certain risk ratio, you can make certain trades and still break even. And one of my friends who’s a professor of psychology, he’s educated me a lot in terms of how you can actually set up these little sort of triangle patterns to accelerate your returns and reduce your losses.

And gosh, there’s nothing like getting into at least a demo account and starting to learn about that. You can discover that all of this stuff applies to every part of your life. In fact, the big thing that I noticed was after learning about Forex, it gave me a deep understanding as to why my friend surfs the way he does. He will pick off the very best wave and maximize it instead of taking every wave that comes along, because he’s applying an algorithm to his way of selection and he’s increasing the amount of enjoyment and return that he gets from the energy that he invests into the activity. So it is a fascinating thing, and I love watching it unfolds as you’re sharing these ideas.

Automated versus manual

How much of your system is automated or put to robots versus you manually applying the algorithm?

Justin: Well, that’s why I think now is the time. I think there is a lot of us who have become successful in our marketing and now we have a little extra money, so we’re learning about investing and trading and so we’re starting to learn these other things that exist. And then we’re also coming across a time when there’s more automation and bots than ever before, and so we have to start thinking in these very logical, I think logarithmic is the right word to use. We have to be thinking in these linear sequences. And so that’s where these algorithms really help, is you have to think about the rules that you’ve been applying as an expert in your trade and then start writing those out on paper and then you start applying bots to them.

So a very simple example is with kind of, there’s kind of a new version of a squeeze page. And what I’m using, I’m using a tool called Landbot. And when somebody comes to this page, rather than them just seeing like a headline and some bullet points and an opt-in box, it’s greeting them. And there’s a specific sequence that they go through before I ask them for the email address. And then behind that, there’s also algorithms to the rules in the ad networks.

And then there’s bots. Not necessarily bots. When I say a bot, I mean anything that’s software, really, that has automated rules. And so there’s automated rules that help you rotate your ads so they stay fresh, pause the bad ones, increase the good ones. And then they land on a page that has an automated conversation going on. And you can sort of start stringing all these things together to where they opt in, there’s a bot that’s executing the ads, and then they land on the landing page, which is a conversational bot, which then dumps information into a spreadsheet and kicks off a very personalized email sequence. And so many people are very familiar with automation in the terms of an autoresponder. And so that’s starting to kick off. And then based on which links that they’re clicking inside the autoresponder, it’s setting off other workflows along the way, all the way down to the sale and beyond the sale.

James: Right. So we’ve seen elements of this from marketers, but it sounds like you’re stacking them together. We’ve seen, say, an ASK segmentation like Ryan Levesque teaches, where you’re putting people through a choose your own adventure at the beginning of the sequence. We’ve seen Autoresponder Madness with Andre Chaperon, where people are clicking on behavioral triggers within an email to fire off a new sequence and take them on a separate choose your own adventure. I’ve heard Tom Breeze talk about choose your own adventure when he’s been presenting about YouTube.

The effect on conversions

So you’re stacking some automation from everywhere, from where the ads generated through to where they’re landing through to the follow up sequencing. What sort of changes will you see in conversions when you do this?

Justin: Our conversion numbers are outstanding. My first, I don’t know if you call it a landing page bot, a squeeze bot, I don’t know what these things are called yet. But the first one I made had a 55 percent opt-in rate. And that was with every mistake I could possibly make.

And the biggest thing is, when a sale is made face-to-face, the sales person never gives the exact same pitch to every single person. It’s adapted and tweaked on the fly because they can read the body language and other questions are asked and they know if they’re older or if they’re younger, male or female. There’s a lot of different things at play in a real-life sale. It’s customized.

And that’s really what I see happening right now, is we’re using these bots and algorithms to be able to customize our sales presentations to the person so that we’re not just giving everybody the exact same verbiage and presentation.

James: That makes a lot of sense, because people are at different stages and they’re different to start with.

How complicated is it?

So one thing that might pop into the mind of someone listening to this is, Justin, how complicated is it to set this up? Are you doing this yourself? Do you have a team? Is there a service you’d recommend? How do you go about it?

Justin: Everybody can start very simple. And the biggest thing is, is when you start talking about bots and algorithms, it’s like unknown things and they sound very complicated. But we’ve all been using autoresponders for a long time. So first, recognize that you’ve already been doing this at some degree and now you’re just using new tools. It all functions roughly about the same.

And we’ve come a long way in user interfaces on the web. A lot of these tools are drag-and-drop easy. Landbot was simple. I didn’t have anybody. It was over the weekend, I discovered the tool on a Friday afternoon, and then I started playing with it on the weekend. It was drag-and-drop easy, you click a couple of buttons, you type into it. It was, I would say it was easier than the first time I ever set up an autoresponder. Definitely easier than the first time I ever used like an ActiveCampaign or Ontraport – like, those things were way harder than some of these bots that I’m using right now.

What stage are we at?

James: Nice. Now, how far down the track are we with these things? Would you say that we’re in the Gold Rush era, or are companies already embracing this and using it? Are our competitors using these tools, or do we have a chance to get into it before they do?

Justin: I think we’re at the late stages of the early adopter stage, if that makes sense.

James: So we’re before the majority, the early majority.

Justin: Yeah. We’re definitely before the majority, but it’s getting close. This will be the year that, I think in 2019 the majority will be in. I think 2017 was the whispers and the very first people, and then 2018 will be where we go from early adopter to mainstream with these things.

James: Right. So it’s basically following the typical adoption curve that we would see. And I think most people listening to this are in the reasonably savvy end of the market. And the first people to get onto this are going to be able to advertise to their customers and get a better return and allow them to compete more and to basically wipe out the competition.

I think you talked about this, if you can afford to spend more money to get a customer, you’re going to beat your competitors, right?

Justin: Right. And one thing that I have found to help make it easier for me is, you can kind of fall into a trap of, because it can do all these decision trees and branches and sequence, you can very quickly fall into a trap of creating this big, long sequence. And I’ve now learned to have more small sequences rather than one big sequence. Instead of having, like, one year-long autoresponder, I prefer to have a couple of week-long autoresponders that are triggered after one ends to another. Does that make sense?

New technology, old ideas

James: It does. And in terms of sort of short sequences, your daily newsletter – are you making those fresh?

Justin: I am, yeah. I write them every day. I try to write them every day. Some days I just get too busy.

James: Well, I think it’s an important point, because this is something that I’ve encountered over and over again. When I was in the car dealership, I was very, very excited about the online and the marketing. I built up an email list of 10,000 people and would send out email alerts and run AdWords. But nothing beat having a live human being in the showroom and a direct response salesperson.

And what I’m saying here is, it’s great to have all these automations and sequences and responders, but it’s also good to do daily news and fresh stuff, like these podcasts that I send out. It’s real time, by the time it comes out, it’s current, it’s fresh. And we shouldn’t forget that.

And it was funny. I saw my friend’s graph the other day of a Bitcoin-versus-human-psychology graph, and it exactly mirrors what’s happened with the market. It followed the graph perfectly.

Bitcoin versus human psychology

So, as much as people get excited about technology and tools and stuff, there’s still old school history and stuff we can learn as well. And I know you’re a huge fan of reading books from the old time classics. You’re still mixing up the old with the new, right?

Justin: Absolutely. I’m reading some of the oldest books there are on chart patterns in the stock markets. But then I’m also reading things about how to connect APIs to the stock markets and create my own automated trading machines. So there’s a lot to be learned mixing the old with the new. It’s not old or new, it’s how to use them both.

James: One of my recent podcasts was with a more seasoned marketer, and the whole topic was new ideas from old marketing. And it’s just great to see, he’s like a savvy old marketer. I guess like, you and like I, we have an appreciation for what’s come before us, and we can learn so much from it.

Lessons from a tropical mastermind

Just a couple of other things. I want to switch gears here and talk about your recent mastermind that you created at a luxury place in another country.

Justin: Ah, yes.

James: I’m curious – assembling sort of a bunch of A-list marketers who are very financially filtered and motivated to go to something like that, what were your big takeaways from running an event like that and having spent time in that sort of high-brainpower environment? What can we learn from something like that?

Justin: So the coolest thing… OK, so there’s two cool things. So there’s the location, and then there’s how I sold the event. I sold the event with a bot. A $5000 high-end sale all sold through messenger bot. It was the exact same sequences of messages that everybody got and a hundred people, actually there was like a hundred and eight people that went through it, and I think we ended up having 13 or 15 of them come down to Jamaica with us. So that was pretty cool. Zero phone calls, zero webinars, none of that. Just messenger bot.

James: Sweet. That’s very effective.

Justin: What was the question again? I think I was just so excited about that.

James: I’ll get there. I just want to add onto that. I have a similar-priced program for my Maldives thing, which we sell, we actually sold it while I was still on the last one. I asked my team to put a video up and a sales page, and then I mentioned it to my audience and they purchased it. So as a marketer and business owner, I wanted to say, look, from your experience and from my experience, it’s a great idea to run a $5000 experience event in a resort location. That was my findings, and I’m sure… Would you do it again?

Justin: I would do it again. I would do it differently. One, it was a great way to kind of get a vacation paid for, and then depending on your country – in the US, it’s a great tax write off. But for me, I’m a little bit more of an introvert, and this was a whole weekend of me speaking. Not just speaking, because that I can do, while I’m just a motormouth and have a lot to say, and I love what I do say.

James: A motormouth introvert.

Justin: Yeah. But it’s also the in-between the speaking, of like the breaks and the after sessions and the people that arrive early, kind of having to entertain everyone. That takes a lot out of me. It’s just not who I am as a person. So I think if I were to do it again, I would be more about bringing the right people, connecting the people, managing the experience that people are going to have, but less of me doing the speaking and less of me doing the constant entertaining. Like, I would have somebody there who was the host. I had one guest speaker, you’d call him a keynote, but he was like, the featured speaker. He was the only other speaker than me. I would have more of that, and I would speak maybe once or twice, rather than me speaking eight times and having one guest expert.

James: That’s a good insight. You know, on my Maldives trip we have one hour between 6:00 o’clock and 7:00 o’clock up on the top deck on bean bags with a cocktail before dinner, is our business facilitated mastermind. But I’m facilitating and doing some of the speaking but the participants are sharing ideas amongst each other and it works great. I can still surf three times a day and they can do their activities. Because it is draining as well. You need to rest and you need to enjoy the experience. So that’s good, it’s a learning curve like everything else.

My original question, which I will loop back to now, because I’m sure I don’t leave the audience hanging too long, is what was the main takeaway that you got from it, maybe from a content perspective or a big insight. So the first one you shared with us was that you sold it via bot, which is exceptional and a great example of what we were speaking about earlier in this discussion.

What’s the big content takeaway or the big idea or something really remarkable about what you achieved as a group?

Justin: So, I guess the big takeaway is you really have to decide on why you’re doing this. Are you doing this as something to make money, or are you doing this as something to kind of give yourself an amazing free vacation, like an experience? Because the profit margins on Jamaica… you know, catering costs way more than you think catering costs. It was over $6000 to feed 15 people, and that was in a country where things are supposed to be very cheap. And then there’s the place.

So it ended up, I made money, you know, I made a little bit of money, but I got an amazing vacation. And so you have to go into it thinking, is that your goal, that you want to be able to go and have this amazing vacation and enjoy people and create an experience and maybe make a little money on top? Or is this something where you’re strictly just trying to make a lot of money? Because I think what I did wrong, if I were trying to, and that was my goal, my goal was to have an amazing vacation and create a great experience for my customers.

But if I was trying to make a lot of money, I think there’s a couple of things I did wrong. One, the location and the speaker sort of outshined me. You know, it’s like this amazing place in Jamaica with a mansion and a private beach and there’s cooks and drivers. And then my speaker, he recently had a $23 million webinar and runs a $100 million company and so, far more successful than I am. And I thought that was great to bring that, because that brought a lot of value, but he cost me probably 30, maybe 40 percent of what the whole ordeal cost me just to get him out there. So that I think is the biggest insight. If you’re trying to do this just to make money, if you just want to create a mastermind that’s going to be very profitable, hold it at a nice hotel, not a cheap hotel, but where you can keep your costs down and then you be the main attraction and the content that you’re going to help them with is the main attraction, rather than bringing in this big speaker who ends up… You know, like my coach said, you don’t want your attraction to become the distraction.

James: Right. I think that’s a really good distinction. Certainly when I’m doing mine on a boat, all the accommodation and catering is taken care of, and the real attraction is each of the group members. I have people who are world class at whatever they do and they have huge gaps in the bits they’re missing and I love facilitating and bringing them together. Someone who’s introverted and reserved and an amazing software genius and can set up sales funnels all day long can learn a lot from a world-level blogger who is great at bringing their brand out and converting stuff. But the blogger might be able to learn a lot about setting up sales funnels that actually make money. And I love just the intermingling that happens on something like that. What a fantastic thing.

The most-circled item

When you have a guy who’s running a $100 million company that costs a lot of money, what insights does that person share? I guess that’s what I was really angling for is, if we were there at Jamaica and we were taking notes, what would be on our notepad as the most-circled item to go home and implement?

Justin: The coolest idea shared during the event was something called Cart Casino, have you seen this?

James: No. I’m sure I’d love to find out.

Justin: OK, so it’s part of the Sumo set of tools. It’s like WordPress plugin, they have popups and well they’ve created….

James: Noah Kagan?

Justin: Yeah, Noah Kagan’s tool. And so they’ve created a new function called Cart Casino and what it is is, you imagine a typical opt-in offer: “Get this free PDF when you give me your email address.” Well now, with Cart Casino, you say, “Spin the wheel. You may get a free PDF, you may get $50 dollars off, you may get a free coaching call. You know, there’s a bunch of different lead magnets that they could spin the wheel for and opt-in for. And so that was kind of the cool, unique case study that was shared over the weekend and works insanely well. I mean, people are just opting in. Not only are they opting in, but they’re opting in multiple times so that they can keep spinning the wheel.

James: Right. It really appeals to people’s gambling thing. It’d probably go very well in Australia. And it’s gamifying it, making it fun for the customer.

The biggest webinar ever

Justin: Right. And then the big thing from Fernando was that, if you want to create a massive webinar, I think the biggest takeaway is most people have small webinars because they’re limiting themselves on the software. If you only have the hundred-people plan on GoToWebinar, then you’re always telling people, “And you better sign up quickly, because I can only have 100 people on there.” Or if you have the thousand one, it’s the same thing. You’re always limiting yourself to how big your webinar could ever be. But that’s not how his company ever thinks. He says, “We’re signing up everybody we can sign up and we’ll figure the software out later.” And I think that’s a huge mind shift for a lot of people that were there that day.

And the trick to how they ran the webinars, it really was just kind of an HTML page with a livestream video player and then a chat box, and then they also had another little like, iframe that they could change out the image at any time and it would automatically refresh so that the people didn’t have to refresh their page. That was helping them switch between different livestreams in case one went down and whatever. And then sometimes, they would have to tell people, like the audio, “Just wait a second, we’re fixing the audio.” And so they just had, like, an HTML page with holes in it. One of the holes was a livestream video player, another one was an image that they could deploy based on whatever they needed to say. It rotated from testimonials to announcements to phone numbers. And then they had a chat box as well.

James: Very cool. So they’re thinking big.

Justin: Yeah. It let them have 85,000 people on live.

James: That’s amazing. It is exceptional. That’s a lot of people. It was the biggest webinar in history, was it?

Justin: We think so. Nobody has ever come up and said, “Hey, you know, ours was bigger,” And we’ve asked everybody we know that’s run big webinars. So we’re calling it the biggest one.

Where Justin’s arrived

James: Let’s just talk for a minute about what you’re doing over at AdSkills.com, that’s your website. And I think you’re positioning yourself now as an educator in traffic and conversion type courses. Do you want to talk about that for a sec?

Justin: Yeah, sure. What do you want to know?

James: Well, you’ve changed your business model occasionally in the time that I’ve known you, and I was lucky enough to see behind the scenes for a while there, as well. But where have you arrived at? You’ve got an all-you-can-eat membership style now, or something to that effect?

Justin: Yes. So I had an agency, and I kind of realized that I could scale the agency. I don’t like when people say that services aren’t scalable, because there’s a lot of great big scalable services that are out there, Supercuts, H&R Block. So that’s not true that you can’t scale them. But it definitely takes more work to scale a services business, and the lifestyle that I wanted, with travelling with my family, the business didn’t fit my lifestyle anymore. And then there was a bigger problem that I saw. So originally, the problem kind of was my income. I just wanted to solve the make-enough-money-to-live-a-decent-life. Well, when I got there, I actually kind of lost my way for a little bit, because I had hit my goal, then what?

And then I found a new goal to pursue, which was, I want to solve the problem that people think it’s hard to hire a good marketer. And there’s a lot of people who want to be… there’s so many places to go today. If you want to be a coder, if you were be a software engineer at big companies, there are college courses, there’s bootcamps, there’s a million paths for you to take. But if you want to be a career Google Ads professional, or if you want to be a career Facebook ads professional for maybe an Uber or a Microsoft or Pizza Hut or whatever, where do you go for that? All the courses I saw online were mostly about network marketing, affiliate marketing, make money online. There was nothing to really build a solid career around.

And that’s what I am passionate about today, is teaching people what I was able to learn through clients that gave me massive budgets, to show them how to handle bigger budgets, land bigger clients, all that jazz.

James: Great. I know I’ve sent you a few leads lately, as the place to go to learn about that stuff. So it’s good to see.

Justin: Thank you. Thank you.

James: That’s alright.

How was James’s book?

I’ll ask you a selfish question, if that’s okay.

Justin: Sure.

James: Did you like my book?

Justin: Did I like your book? Yes, I did like your book. I actually handed it to a very close friend of ours who just made the switch from employee to entrepreneur. It’s her first time working from home. She has her first client. And your book is good for a lot of people, but it’s exceptional for somebody at that stage, because you’re giving somebody over a decade’s worth of knowledge, like all that stuff that you’ve learned and all the mistakes you’ve made and they get to have that in their first year. I wish somebody had told me all the things you wrote about in your book in my first year. I would have saved so much money; I would have made so much more money. That’s how I really feel about your book. It is a godsend for somebody that’s new. And for somebody who’s a veteran, there’s a lot of good golden nuggets and reminders.

Justin: Yeah. Thank you. I did dedicate it to my kids, because it really is perfect for foundational knowledge and there’s some classics there, like the old books that we’re reading about marketing – some of those things won’t age. They’re evergreen. And I did write the book that I wanted to be able to give myself 20 years ago. It would have saved me a bit of time and effort.

Justin, always good to catch up. Listener can go and check out Justin Brooke at AdSkills.com. Join the newsletter. It’s a very good newsletter. I love hearing about the journey. I’m looking forward to continuing updates on algorithms and what’s working in marketing.

Thank you for coming and sharing your lessons about running a mastermind and what you would do differently and providing some tool tips as well, with the Cart Casino discussion – that was very interesting.

And of course, one big point here is, just think way, way bigger. If you’ve got an artificial constraint holding you back, it’s maybe time to go and question that, assess it, see if it’s compromising your ability to grow. So that was a huge lesson about how the biggest webinar was run. And, you know, you had to push yourself through the trials and tribulations of going down to Jamaica to learn that lesson and you’ve come back and shared it with us. Appreciate that, Justin, and enjoy your new pickup truck, and I’ll catch you on Facebook, no doubt.

Justin: Alright, thank you. The honor is all mine to be on your podcast. Thank you.

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