In the interview:
02:06 – Quick recap
03:14 – A great writing tool
07:05 – You might hate this, but…
10:25 – Making content more reader-friendly
12:47 – Don’t throw out your TV yet
14:34 – Tactical secrets for broadcasting launch campaigns
18:45 – P.S. This really works
22:14 – A secret weapon in marketing
23:10 – Being paid forever
27:57 – How important is your list size?
29:55 – Frequency doesn’t matter
33:05 – Emails vs. PDFs
33:54 – Wrapping it up
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James: James Schramko here. Welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. If you can detect some excitement on my voice, it’s because we are having so much fun on this strategic serialized email series with my special expert guest Andre Chaperon. Welcome back.
James: Now Andre is famous, world famous for being the Autoresponder Madness guy. I mean he’s mad, if you ever meet him or have a pizza with him or share a beer. We’ve hung out plenty of different places around the world and it’s always great. But the best thing is we speak every single week, Andre.
One of the things that I’ve noticed, because I speak to lots of business entrepreneurs and I coach quite a few at a high level, when we chat, quite often, the main activity that you’re doing in your business is writing emails. That’s usually on your to-do lists, and it’s one of the only things you do these days. And it must profitable for this to be the case. I’m guessing that you’ve got some of these tactics dialed in quite nicely.
Andre: Yeah. I guess the way that I see myself in some ways is I’m a writer. I’m not a classic fiction writer yet. I’d love to be one, one day, but I’ve got my challenges, being dyslexic, so writing never came naturally to me, which is kind of a strange thing, seeing that I write emails.
James: That’s hilarious. It’s like when I had virtually no Internet connection and my whole job was online-based. But you can be overcome, and we’re going to talk about some specific ways to do that.
So just a quick recap where we’re at, if you haven’t already listened to the first episode, we talked about the goal of using your emails in your business and how that can really increase your lifetime customer value. Andre gave away the secret to what drives his whole email purpose, and it wasn’t to make more money, believe it or not. It starts with R, but you have to go back to the episode and find out what that is.
Andre: See if you can guess.
James: See if you can guess. It wasn’t riches either OK.
Strategy was the second episode, and we talked about Andre’s childhood habits, and how he was reading books and the magical discovery that he encountered that actually he was able to replicate in his business, I think he said a million years later, which may have been an exaggeration. We talked about how he splits the mix between autoresponders and broadcasts in his business. We even defined what an autoresponder is. So if you haven’t listened to that episode, I highly recommend you go back.
But now, we’re going to really get into some more how-to. You’ve got the goal, you’ve got the strategy, how do you actually do this? I also promised to share in this episode a technique that Andre taught me about writing soap opera sequences. So maybe I should start with that one Andre.
Writing soap opera sequences
Andre: Yeah. That’s how I figured it out, that I got pretty good at writing soap opera sequences is by using that thing that I shared with you.
James: So what Andre shared with me is firstly, he shared with me a writing tool that pretty much closes everything else on my computer and just opens up the writing part. He showed me that I could actually open multiple panels of this writing tool. Now I don’t know if Andre is still using the same tool or not. Do you still use the same tool Andre, or have you moved on since then? But he was using iA Writer.
Andre: Yeah. I love my iA Writer, and I have it on all my devices, mobile and desktop.
James: Well I found that it’s very good with dictation with a high-quality microphone if you’re not good with typing like I am. That’s also been handy. But what Andre told me to do is open up my multiple emails as separate sheets and then to basically put the key elements of the story across the different sheets and then to fill them in so that all of your open loops are covered in advance. And you’re basically creating the story but across multiple sections and then of course you just upload the separate stories into your autoresponder system, and now you have an easy production method.
James: Any subtleties or things that I might have explained differently than how you operate?
Andre: If someone doesn’t have iA writer because it is a paid thing, although it’s not expensive, if you’re on the Mac, you use Textedit, which is baked into the OS, it’s just a text editor.
James: And OS stands for?
Andre: Operating System.
James: Yeah, I just have to make sure that we clear up these tech talks.
Andre: And then if you’re on Windows, I think Windows has a Notepad, which is the text editor. I think when you open Notepad and Textedit at the gate, it’s in rich text format. I turn that off. So I make it plain text, you got your preferences and you just select the little plain text button and then everything goes to plain text mode.
James: That way, you’re not importing junk into your email system. Is that why you do that?
Andre: Yes. Yes. So when you copy and paste out of that and you put it into your emails, it doesn’t inherit all that stuff.
James: Code bloating. And a lot of email systems have a copy from a cut-and-paste type icon that you can click on if you are pasting from somewhere else, if it’s just a little word. If you’re posting from products like Word, it’ll often bring in a lot of weird characters and jumble up your formatting.
Andre: That’s right.
James: So just from a tactical point of view, make sure you’re using clean text when you import them into your system. But what I really liked about this, and this is how I’ve actually adopted this. Now when I’m crafting an important email or I’m doing an amazing forum post, I’ll actually write it in iA Writer in my scratchpad there and then I’ll paste it into wherever I’m putting it. Have you ever had a window close on you halfway through an edit because you took a while or you left the computer, you come back and it says timed out, or it’s closed, or refreshed. If you ever have had that happen, this is the way to avoid that.
Andre: Yeah. I guess that’s one of the geeky things and the nice things about Apple Mac, with the latest OS is it got iCloud built in, baked into all the frontend tools. So something like Text Editor or iA Writer, as you’re writing, it’s saving that. So you can literally just turn your computer off or the power can get turned off and a copy of that still remains in the cloud. So you never lose stuff, which is what I love about that.
James: So how do you become a better writer?
How to become a better writer
Andre: Oh, people are going to hate this.
James: This isn’t called the easy podcast. We’re giving information here that has worked for you and the things that I’ve learned from you have worked for me. So take it as you wish, but what’s your tip?
Andre: So my tip is basically read more. The more you read, the better you’re going to get. I was a late starter to this whole reading thing. I know I mentioned in the last podcast that I used to read these choose-your-own-adventure books. As a dyslexic person, those books were nice and skinny and easy to read. I don’t think people would classify that as reading a fiction novel.
James: I’m just wondering when you got to the bottom of the page and it said go to page 26 or page 38 if your adventures were getting messed up because of the dyslexia.
Andre: [laughs] Yeah. Oop, wrong page.
James: You probably had the craziest adventure ever. Should I go right or left, and you turn the page, and he sliced you with his sword. What?
Andre: Oops. Yeah. So I guess my story is when I was 35 years old, I’m 42 now, so it was a few years ago, I actually read the first proper fiction book like a real adult, the first one in my life. I went through the whole of school without reading an entire book from cover to cover. I’d just find hacks on if I can just read the first few pages of every paragraph, of every chapter, and then the back page. I used to make up the rest and I managed to scrape through school right there. But anyway, so at the age of 35, I managed to read my very first novel and I fell in love, which is why I started late.
There’s a point when I started to read like that that my writing became easier and more natural, and I’m better at it. So I can type back to that moment when I started to read fiction, and now, every single day, I just read. I can’t stop reading. Again, I’m still dyslexic, so I’m not the fastest reader in the world. It takes me a few weeks to finish any book, even though I was reading it every single day. I love it. It changes the game in terms of how you write.
James: That’s an awesome tip. I also read a fair bit too. I think one tip that helped me a lot, someone told me, one of the copywriters and I can’t remember which one, I think it might have been John Carlton, was to if you can’t write, just be conversational, like just record yourself talking in a conversation and have it transcribed, and that is a good starting point.
So what I did is started just talking. As I’m typing, I just talk my way through it the way that I would as if I’m talking to someone in the showroom in my old role, selling Mercedes-Benz. I found that my sales game was pretty good in print just like it was face to face when I had the conversational manner.
I noticed a lot of your emails are extremely conversational and they’re not super English formal type.
Andre: Yes. Perhaps one of the reasons for that is my English is horrendous so it kind of translates well.
James: But it’s OK to use very simple words, right? We don’t have to have a high complexity to our writing. We might actually lose people if we do that.
Andre: Yeah. I mean there’s a tool called Hemingway tool or it’s a Hemingway feature in a tool. If you go to Google and you type Hemingway tool, it’s this free SaaS text that…
James: And SaaS stands for?
Andre: Software as a Service. So most of Google services, Facebook, anything that you access using your Internet browser that’s online.
James: And the goal is to have a score that’s more readable than fancier, right?
Andre: Yeah. So if an academic wrote something and stuck them to the tool, he just wouldn’t pass. You need to dump it down to like an age 5, or 6 or 7 year old, which has been great for me because that’s how I write naturally. So I don’t have the biggest vocabulary in the world, which is fine. So my writing is automatically like an 8-year-old. So it’s great. The Hemingway tool, basically, if you’ve written and you’ve used too many big words, it’ll tell you and it’ll flag them up and then you can just dumb them down and when you good at that, and just writing really plain, simple stuff and then mixing that with the more you read, like I mentioned earlier.
The first book I read was Lee Child’s, a book authored by Lee Child called Persuader, which is a Jack Reacher novel, which is amazing, his writing style. And I inherited his writing style. It’s washed over my thing, the way that I write. It’s just short, punchy sentences. Very simple. It just makes writing really easy and it makes reading it from the reader’s perspective way nicer.
“The more you read, the better you write.”
Using story-based drama
James: Right. And we combine that with our tactical tip of opening multiple note windows using open loops and telling your stories, injecting that story-based drama and suspense. In fact, would it be fair to say that if you were binge-watching Netflix videos that you’ll start to develop a style for open loops and storytelling?
Andre: Yes. Yes.
James: I think it’s helped me. I actually used to consider TV series as some kind of sinful, guilty luxury that was not for a serious business person. Although in the last year or two, I’ve watched more movies and series than at any time in my life. I think it’s developed my ability to have conversations and to have a more natural feel for building curiosity and making sure that I’m understanding where the stories are at. So now I found a higher degree of ability to predict the storylines as they’re unfolding, which means I’m so synchronizing with it.
Andre: Yeah. Totally. I actually write off my Netflix subscription as a business expense because when I’m watching programs at Netflix, I’m actually learning stuff that I can then implement it in the business.
James: That would be awesome if you actually had to pay any tax in Gibraltar.
Andre: Yeah. Watched series 1 episode 1 of Lost and then also one of the ones that I’ve been watching recently is something called Mr. Robot. That’s also on Netflix. Mr. Robot is great and all these open loops happen like up the gates, especially with Lost series 1 episode 1. It just blew my mind listening to it first thing and all these open loops and you just kind of dream about that stuff, what’s going to happen next. So you just apply that to email marketing and it’s good to go.
James: Now we promised in an earlier episode, in our strategy session, when we were talking about broadcast, we said application for broadcast would be when there’s timely things like launches, can you divulge a few tactical secrets regarding launches because I do see occasionally you participate in them. I know for a fact that it brings you in a good chunk of revenue. How can we apply some of your secrets to our broadcast launch campaigns?
Broadcasting launch campaigns
Andre: Yeah. One of the few times I do the broadcast is when there’s a launch and I’m part of that as an affiliate. So I don’t do many of those but when I do, that’s because there’s a hard beginning date and an end date and the cut open date and then it’s all going to a stop date. You can’t do that as an automated thing because you just can’t control anything. So that’s when I do broadcasts.
My strategy is really simple. I will identify the sublists, or the categories, or the tags in the system that I know best matches that product. So if that product is a Facebook ads product for example, well I’m going to ignore all the people that have self selected that they’re into SEO traffic and free traffic. So I can safely ignore them because that email is going to be irrelevant to them. I’ll just tag all targets, all the people that I know are into paid advertising.
James: Already that step would separate you from a lot of other marketers. You’ve actually bothered to think about cruising around your database and saying who would even be interested in this. So it demonstrates what you’re talking about in episode 1 about being relevant and seeing yourself as someone worthy of attention because you care about them enough to not bombard them with something irrelevant.
Andre: Yeah. That’s the cool thing with the whole choose-your-own-adventure thing that we spoke on the second podcast that when people are working their way through your autoresponder sequence and they’re choosing their own adventure, the actual system is tagging them as they click this link, and therefore, it’s telling me that person is interested in that certain thing. So that helps me later on when I’m going to be sending out a broadcast email to identify those people really easily.
In the cases where I can’t identify people because the offer is perhaps general or I think there’s many people that would benefit from it, I’ll then send out a broadcast to everybody. So that’s one of the only times I do that. It’s typically, again I approach it differently. It’s typically a longish email, and when I say long, maybe between 400 and 1,000 words. It tells a story but it gives a lot of context for that click.
So I’m setting up that click that then tells me that if they click that link, they’re interested in this thing. I’ve very overt about the fact that there’s a launch happening. Sometimes I’ll say it’s product X. The context in that email is going to create context for them and tell them that if they click that link, they’re going to be added to this launch list. And if they want to know more, then that’s great. Click the link and I’ll tell you more. If you don’t, you can ignore this and then I won’t email you again about it.
James: That’s respectful, isn’t it?
Andre: It’s respectful in the way that the email in and of itself adds value to them because every single email that I’ve sent, I need to add some sort of value even if I’m just trying to identify if a certain product is a good match for that person. You can do that and still add value.
James: Yeah. And that’s not considered a bad thing, is it? If someone says to you, “Hey, I’m just cleaning out my garage and I’ve got my immaculate set of golf clubs here that I no longer need, Andre, are you interested in golf at all? Would you like these golf clubs?” And if you say, “No thanks, I’m not interested in golf.” Then you wouldn’t be upset that someone’s taken the time to find out if you’re interested in something where they might have been able to help you. So I think that’s a really nice way to do it.
Andre: Yeah. And then I could then say, “P.S. By the way, I read this article this morning about x, y and z. I thought it amazing and I think you might too.” And then that’ll link to a general article that I know that they will like, which could just be some article on Medium.com or anywhere else.
James: It’s such an age-old tip that is rarely done. I used to send newspaper clippings to my clients. I remember this guy used to sell umbrellas, and I found an article about some related industry tender that was up, and I clipped it out of the paper. By the way, I was selling Mercedes-Benz, so not at all relevant and said, “Hey Len, I found this article. Thought it might be useful for you.” He actually pitched for the tender, won it, and came and bought a new Mercedes-Benz from me.
Andre: That’s brilliant. There we go. So it works, right?
James: My mom still does it. Whenever I see her, she’s got a stack of clippings for me on our kitchen table that she’s collected for me that she thinks will be relevant to what I’m interested in. She’s done it for as long I’ve been alive and could read. You can’t help but think going that little extra bit is special. Someone actually thought of you.
I’ve loved your little P.S.’s, I found this or whatever. You’ve shared so many interesting resources over the decade, more than a decade that I’ve been on your email list that you wouldn’t consider not being there.
Andre: Yeah. Those P.S.’s work amazingly well. It’s so simple to do. The cool thing is you’re allowed to tell a completely different story in the P.S. to the main area.
James: Absolutely. In fact, I use the P.S. to sell tickets to my event for about 9 months of the year. It’s really the only time I pitch my event. I rarely would actually send a specific email to pitch my event unless someone visits the checkout page. The P.S. can be completely different. There could be a P.S. on the email that goes out about this particular episode that might not be to do with this particular episode, but it’s like, “Hey, while you’re here, in other news…”
Andre: Yeah. Just like by the way, blah blah blah.
James: Well it’s like on the sports. So after the news is the sports and then at the end of that, you get to see some weird thing that’s kind of completely off the wall, like the latest YouTube video that just went viral or something, some guy dancing or something completely not newsworthy or interesting from a factual perspective but it’s entertainment and it leaves you on a lighthearted note.
Andre: Yeah. I’ve experimented a lot for this. I’ll tell a story in the P.S. over multiple emails, which is completely disconnected to the main email, and people get addicted to reading that P.S. series now.
James: Andre’s got a serialized P.S.
Andre: Yeah. And then they’ll email me because I’ve forgotten or I just haven’t yet closed it off. And it’s like, “Tell me about this thing that you did. That happened? The last thing I heard is you are moving from Northern Spain to Southern Spain. Are you there yet?” So people are following the stuff that’s happening in the P.S. Again, it creates amazing engagement.
James: One thing you do is you put vulnerability into your marketing. Do you think that’s a secret weapon?
Andre: Yeah. I mean I think people like to see that there’s a human on the other end and not some just pure 100% hardcore direct response marketer. If they can relate to you, somebody else that’s a human, with flaws. Everyone’s got flaws and if you talk about those, it definitely humanizes stuff.
James: It’s like when I speak to you every week, we’ll usually have an exchange about something we saw on Facebook. I might say, “I noticed you had your 17th year anniversary. Congratulations!” Like you’re filling in the gaps on social media and in your emails.
James: So tell me, is there any evergreen component to a promotion or is it just a throwaway?
“People want to connect with the story.”
Andre: Right. So one of the criteria that I will do is if I’m asked to promote something that’s part of a launch, I’ll then ask that person, “Is there an opportunity for me to promote this as an evergreen thing later on?” Even if you don’t do it officially, is there a way where I can get some backdoor link so I can essentially make it evergreen. That almost always has to be a yes; otherwise, there is no real benefit in me doing a one-off promotion whereas I’m going to get paid one-off for writing these emails and I’m going to get paid forever type of things. So the answer to that would typically be yes or they’ll make it happen as many for them as well.
James: It’s such a great tactic. You don’t have to be in this one-time world. On a very related note, my favorite affiliate marketing technique is to do a podcast with someone about their product, and that works the best if the product is going to be there for a long time because I’m going to have listeners for years.
Andre: Yeah. Getting paid over and over is the best thing ever. You’ve helped me to really get better at that.
James: Ha ha. Well I forced you to score affiliate opportunities. I actually asked you to predict what would happen and then to retrospectively analyze it. And we learned some interesting things together, didn’t we? I mean I learned plenty through your process because you do more promotions than I do. Often, what we think someone’s going to do and what they actually do will turn out to be different and adding this leverage thing is a really sneaky way for you to get out of having to fill the post-campaign report, isn’t it?
Andre: Right. Yeah. So what I’ll do then is promote the offer and things will go well and then maybe some things there could have gone better but obviously, you’re sending out these emails in real time so you can’t see the future. You can’t see the future when you’re doing autoresponders because now you’re getting the benefit of hindsight, but you don’t have that luxury when you’re sending out broadcast for something in the now. So that promotion will play out and there’ll be a certain result. I would have earned it and a certain amount of money.
At that point, I’ll know which were the best emails, which were the emails that perhaps didn’t connect as well. And all I need to do is tweak that little campaign and I can inject that into my autoresponder sequence as an evergreen thing. So that thing gets taken and stuck into my choose-your-own-adventure, and some people are going to end up with the path that they self select.
They’ll end up in this promotion as an evergreen thing and obviously at that point, I get to earn money forever because these people are going to fall through into that part of the system or that part of the choose-your-own-adventure forever, so long as that offer is still relevant, which is another criteria for picking something worth promoting that it needs to have some sort of long-term evergreen component or it can be some sort of tactic that in six months’ time, it’s just not going to be relevant anymore, even if there’s a backdoor way of promoting it because it’s just, I’m going to have to tear it out of my autoresponder sequence later on, which is I don’t like doing a lot, I like to stick stuff only once and just leave it.
James: We hate the rework, don’t we?
James: One of my favorite choose-your-own-adventure affiliate sequences that’s paid big dividends, and I shared this at an Ontraport conference from stage, was I put a P.S. This email was sent using OAP, which is what they used to call themselves. Only when people clicked on that did it tag people and put them into a special sequence that started following them up with a story about why I switched from Aweber to Ontraport, and then the next one is like sharing with them some other things in standard offers, a bonus that they can get if they buy it through my link. I generated four figures a month in commission just from that little choose-your-own-adventure.
Andre: Yeah. That’s really smart.
James: Really easy to do because I’m already sending the email. Of course a lot of my customers want to know what tool is James using because he’s probably tried a few and he’s pretty fussy. I’m going to ask you just a couple more things as we close out that might be perhaps on a list as mine and we’ll just wrap up our whole series here.
But before we do that, I’ve heard you a couple of times refer to your list size as being fairly small. So I’m gathering that all of the stuff you’ve talked works pretty well at a small scale and it’s going to be effective for someone listening to this even if they don’t have 500,000 emails in their database.
The size of your email list
Andre: Yeah. I mean to add some context to that is quite a few times, I’ll be the number one affiliate on a launch or at least number two or three, and in almost every single case, my broadcast list that I’ve sent that promotion to because I’ve identified a certain part of the people. I pulled them out because they’re raised their hand and their promotion is only going to those people and I’ve ignored everybody else.
That sample size is typically only between 400 on the low side up to say 2,000 on the highest it’s ever been was 2,000 people will raise their hand and say, “Hey, I want to know about this thing.” I can be the number one affiliate on that small size or the number one affiliate on that large size, and it goes to show. I’m up against guys that have huge monster lists and way bigger than mine, certainly way bigger than my list of 400 people. But I can still compete because it’s relevant.
James: That’s why you’re a big fan of relevancy. It’s amazing. And it gives real perspective when you think about where our list size is. It’s kind of funny like of my list, which isn’t really that big, I’m probably somewhere in the 26,000 or 27, 000 mark, somewhere around there. Of that, I’ve probably got about a couple of thousand, really good, solid, strong core buyers who generate millions of dollars in sales. You don’t need big, big numbers. You just need to be relevant.
On a related thing, we’ve talked about list size and relevancy, with frequency, I’m kind of guessing that you’re saying the frequency really doesn’t matter so much as long as you’re focusing on relevancy. Would that be fair?
“You don’t need big numbers. You just need to be relevant.”
Andre: Yeah. And the cool thing is you get to control frequency with your autoresponder sequences. So if somebody goes to your, one of our things, our prospect list, and subscribes for our TLB one for example, they subscribe to that. That’ll play out for let’s say 35 days. It’ll send out one email every single day. The frequency on that soap opera sequence is one day. So they essentially get this email that shows up every single day and tells the story, and moves them through this narrative arc that’s a little over a month long. But then you can break that up.
So once they’ve been through that initial one-month sequence of one email per day, you can then widen those gaps and make it one email every week. That’s how you can have a soap opera sequence that lasts many months. I think my longest one I’ve ever had has been six months long. So someone adds themselves and those emails don’t stop for six months. I mean they’re not every single day of course because I’ll increase the frequency later on in the sequence because then you don’t need to send them…
James: And of course you’ve combined autoresponder sequences into paid products as well as a delivery method.
Autoresponder + paid product
Andre: Yes. And that works amazingly well. I’m always experimenting on different ways of doing things and that was one of the things I experimented on and everybody said, “Are you mad? How can you deliver a whole product as an email series? People are going to hate that.” People loved that. Autoresponder Madness really got off the map on when I released version 2 as a pure email. So they bought the product and the product was delivered as email number one, next day was email number two, which was the next lesson, and email number three was the third lesson.
James: I’ve taken a cue from that, I definitely deliver my free courses on my opt-in now over multi-part emails just like they’re loaded up in the autoresponder. They’re getting really good statistics. I actually had someone go and check them and the stuff like open rates 62% for the emails that are going out, which I’m really happy with for someone who’s paid nothing that they can consistently do that, and this is on a sample size of a thousand from my most recent course, and it stays high for the four emails that are in that sequence.
So it’s a great way to get a good opt-in. But the reason I switched from a cheat sheet or a one-time PDF is I was shocked to realize that a lot of people would get the first email and then never open the single other email. It’s like they got what they were promised and then that’s it. They’re not interested in anything else. So having a different framing of how it’s going to be delivered can create a much stronger relationship.
Andre: Yeah. Here’s the other thing right, as we know, everybody has mobiles now. In fact, there’s more mobile traffic than there’s desktop traffic flapping about. The nice thing with email is emails are responsive. You can read your email in a desktop or you can read it on your mobile device and it’s super simple. It’s lightweight. You can read it. It’s just fine. It looks amazing. If you write your emails in that way, it doesn’t matter what device they’re using, they’re reading the same beautiful looking email with the same links. So they can click those links and it goes somewhere, which you don’t have that luxury with PDF.
PDF doesn’t look great on an iPhone. It just doesn’t. You can’t read it properly. People tell themselves, “I’ll remember, when I get back home, I’m going to open it up on my desktop.” And then they don’t ever do that. So email is magic when it comes to doing things like that.
James: Andre, it’s been so good chatting about emails. In this strategic serialized email series, we’ve covered the goals of it, why you actually should be doing this. We talked about the strategies, the overview, everything from choose-your-own-adventure to the mix of autoresponders and broadcasts. And today, we’ve covered fun tactics on how to write them, some really good ways to take advantage of launches and then to still turn that stuff into evergreen and taking advantage of the soap-opera sequences and open loops.
You’ve been so generous with your information. I encourage listeners to go and get Autoresponder Madness. Don’t wait. Just go and grab it because it’s the benchmark course in the industry. Andre, just great to chat and I appreciate all the stuff that you’ve shared with us on this program.
Andre: You’re more than welcome. This has been good fun for me as a shy, introverted person.
James: You’ve done splendidly. That’s three episodes in a row. Really, really privileged to have you, a world-leading expert. Hopefully, in the future, I’ll open up a loop and say, would you come back and give us another session if there’s been some questions in the meantime and people want to find out more. Would you come back and share some more information?
Andre: That sounds like an unbelievable offer. An irresistible offer.
James: We’ll speak soon.
James: OK. See you mate!
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