340 – Kevin Rogers 60 Second Sales Hook

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Writing your own copy or finding the right copywriter to do it for you can be one of the most intimidating tasks for a business owner. But Kevin Rogers a.k.a The Copy Chief has a simple yet powerful formula to create copy that gets customers hooked in 60 seconds, and he shares that in this episode.

In this podcast:

01:40 – The case study on Copy Chief
04:29 – The mentee mindset
06:16 – Who’s a qualified copywriter?
09:10 – What is the 60-Second Sales Hook?
11:35 – The marketing hook formula
14:57 – This is what you should share
20:55 – Experiencing a writer’s block?
21:41 – The question authority sales letter
23:44 – Repurposing conversations
25:21 – Questions to get your ideas out
28:37 – The key to copywriting
31:38 – How helpful is the Copy Chief community?
34:21 – What to expect from Kevin’s session at SuperFastBusiness Live
35:54 – Recap and action step

Let James show you the next ten things you can do to double your business HERE

 

 

Tweetables:

Get your customers hooked in 60 seconds. [Click To Tweet].
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Oh crap, I just wrote copy. [Click To Tweet].

Transcription:

James: Welcome back to SuperFastBusiness, I’m James Schramko. Today, we are going to get into some psychological stuff. Some things that business owners often struggle with, but are actually quite easy once you know how. And the best thing about today’s discussion is that it will help you make more profit in your business. I’m absolutely certain of that. I brought on a special guest, my good friend, and comedian as well as copywriter, Kevin Rogers.

Kevin: Yaka, yaka, yaka.

James: I always like to mention the comedy. So you’re still funny, you tell me.

Kevin: Well yeah. But a lot of people don’t understand that comedians aren’t funny when they’re not on stage. They’re the most miserable people walking the planet. That’s where the confusion comes in.

James: Now, is that somewhat like a business owner who might come to life in their sales copy but the rest of the time, they’re busy running their business?

Kevin: Yeah. I’d say that’s a fair assessment. Or you know, it’s probably like a motivational speaker who, if you followed them around for a week, you’d realize that they’re completely full of s**t.

Kevin’s community
James: [laughs] OK. Now, you’ve got a community called CopyChief.com, which is where the business owners and copywriters come together, working together in the background. I saw you launch that community. It was also a featured case study on the Sales Marketing Profit podcast. If you want to go and listen to how it came about, go and listen to that.

Kevin, we’ve been friends for quite some time. We got introduced by the legendary copywriter, John Carlton, of which you also have a podcast with him. So you’re known as a copywriter, but perhaps you just give our listeners just a little bit more. I know I’ve had you on my show before. But you’ve been up to some new tricks and you’ve refined what you’ve been doing. Let’s see what you’re up to these days.

What has Kevin been up to?
Kevin: Well certainly, the work we’ve done together has changed my business quite a bit. This whole year has been a real adventure for me. A lot of people who know me, know my story of dropping out of high school, just to go on a road as a standup comedian, staying on the road for almost a decade, worked with a lot of now famous comics like Chris Rock and Louis CK, and guys who were really top of their game. Strange twists and turns came into direct response copywriting. I’m very passionate about it, and my heroes, when I was coming up with John Carlton and Gary Halbert and Clayton Makepeace and all these guys, and now, I’m still amazed to get to call these people friends and peers.

I was at a dinner just last month with John and Dan Kennedy. If you know anything about Dan Kennedy, he doesn’t do that very often. And so John, literally badgered him via fax, which is the only way you are able to communicate with them to have this dinner with us. And that was really epic.

You know I was a copywriter James, and that’s great for the client you’re working with at the time and I had a decent group of people who followed my blog and I was very passionate about writing to them when the mood would strike, but I had nothing like a marketing plan for my own sort of brand or business building. And that was like my mantra for a good 5 years straight was, every December, I’d say, “All right. Next year is the year. I’ve got to get my own thing going. I’ve got to get my own thing going.” And then somehow, the next December would occur and I was saying the same thing. I got real tired of hearing myself say that.

So this year, I decided to invest in mentors and coaches, and I did that. And it has been a real game changer. You hear all the time that you can’t do it alone. You need a good mentor, you need a good coach. But until you, there’s a thing I call a “mentee mindset.” And it’s the whole idea that half the value of investing in a mentor is what it does to you, your own housecleaning and your own inventory checking when you become a mentee. And you really buy into the process and you quickly start to go, “Wow, I have been lying to myself really bad because now I have to show up and answer this guy’s questions and I don’t like them. I don’t like the answers.”

James: Plus the other thing is that when you make an investment, you’re actually investing in yourself. And the output you get in that investment will really need to exceed the investment for you to feel that it was worthwhile. So it really does create a benchmark for yourself that you need to exceed. And that’s why I think you’ve got direct results. And also, as someone who’s used to charging customers for results with your copy, it’s nice to put the other shoe on the other foot and to round out the experience from a consumer point of view.

Being a qualified copywriter
Kevin: Yeah, you’re right. Now that’s a great point. And I’ll tell you what, as a marketer, I’ve grown so much this year because now my money’s on the line, right? When I’m creating sales funnels and I’m writing copy and I’m hiring staff and freelancers for the first time in my business, and man, it really does. I don’t know that any copywriter should really be allowed to be a part of major launches unless they’ve created their own products.

I’ve done maybe one a year, little offers and things and those were always eye opening. But this year in particular, I realized all the things I didn’t know. You just can’t be invested until you really put your skin in the game. That’s been huge.

James: I agree. There’s 2 aspects to that I want to just touch on. One is, I’ve never really understood why most copywriters go into that solo, dark den, moody, working with one client at a time cyclic work. And then the other bunch of people who can write copy are business owners, and I’ve noticed that a lot of successful business owners are quite skilled with their own copy. So it’s like some of them have an employee-type mindset, some of them have a business owner mindset. But they both have copywriting skills.

And just on your second point about qualifications, I’ve often thought that about no 20-something year old should be able to publish a book on the success of life until they’ve had kids, had marriage, travelled around a bit, because there’s any number of young smart ****, saying they’ve cracked the formula for life, but they know nothing in their 20’s compared to 20 years down the track after a few kids and a little bit of life experience. They should be some kind of qualified.

Kevin: That’s the truth. Because really, how much could you have been through? I mean, unless it’s relevant to what you’re preaching, if you grew up an orphan, and were abused and survived that, and in now on stable ground and you’re 25, OK. But for the most part, if you’re talking about best practices for living life to the fullest, and you’ve yet to be married or have kids, or deal with those challenges, man, you’re discounted. Have your PR person make up a fake family for you if you want to be credentialized.

James: So you have focused a lot on your own business, and that fits in nicely with today’s discussion because what we’re going to be talking about is really aimed at business owners. How they can incorporate some of the skills that copywriters possess and infuse that for their own business and particularly, one of the techniques that you’re quite big on and you’ve even published a book around this. It sort of leads into this idea of stories. And you’ve got a book about hooks, why don’t you tell us about that and how it sort of lends itself to storytelling and what a business owner can take from that.

What is The 60-Second Sales Hook?
Kevin: Sure. It’s called “The 60-Second Sales Hook.” It is derived from a joke formula that I used and that you’ll see comedians using all the time in stand-up comedy. What was interesting James is when I discovered this formula and I began to research it a little more, I came to see that this is the joke formula the comedians use when the stakes are at their highest.

Most commonly, you’ll see it as the first joke on a national television set. So comedians get their first shot on Jimmy Fallon or some big late night TV show. They’re going to be in front of a national audience and of course these things get Youtube to death anymore. So you get much more exposure beyond just that one 5-minute shot. I call it the persona joke formula because the thing you want to accomplish as a comedian is obviously, you want to get a laugh and you want to build trust with the audience that you’re going to amuse them.

But beyond that, from sort of a marketing standpoint, you want to establish a character that people can relate to and get behind. That’s where you get the big break to star on a sitcom or become a character actor on a sitcom. To really make it as a comedian, you have to end up on TV in some role in a sitcom. Look at Ray Romano even Louis CK, guys who would have been considered a little too edgy back in the day, have found their way on to television.

The formula
And so, the formula very simply goes like this, it’s identity, struggle, discovery and then surprise. That’s the simple persona joke formula. Because of course, at the end of every joke, we need a little twist, a surprise, and that’s what makes us laugh. And so, that’s a very popular joke formula and very effective when the stakes are high.

And then to make it into a marketing hook, what I call the sales hook, I could have called it the 60-second sales pitch or the 1-minute sales story or something like that. But I chose hook because to me, a hook is something that really hooks your customer into you or your offer and helps them remember you. So that’s what this sales hook formula does.

It’s the same exact as a joke formula, except I changed the last part. For the marketing hook, it goes identity, struggle, discovery and then result, because we don’t want to have to come up with witty endings to our hooks. We want to be able to just say, “Here’s what it did for me.” James, you’re famous for this, you’re great for this. Everything you do, you’re framing in the result you achieved with it. Here’s how I created a million dollar year business using this tactic, these things. And so identity, struggle, discovery, result. Really powerful, really simple. The book is fun.

I’ll tell you what’s great about the book is it’s 50 pages long and it’s interesting, James. This is a great lesson for anybody feeling like they have a little bit of a perfectionist in them and they want to get past that. My two biggest anxieties about releasing this book were that: it was going to be too short and people wouldn’t take it seriously, and because it’s literally a transcription of a presentation I gave, and I knew the material was good because people really loved this presentation, and what’s most important to me is they not only enjoy the material but they got out and used it immediately. It’s so simple to write this hook using this 4-part formula and then they implement it and they put it into a video or they write it on a leadpage and they get results with it.

I talked to a woman the other day, who’s a member of Copy Chief, and she used the sales hook and got 1,000% increase in opt-ins to her lead magnet. A thousand percent.

James: So can you give me the example of how she would tell that story on her sales magnet. Is it a video? Is it just words?

Using struggle to get attention
Kevin: Yeah. She used a video, but you could just use it as words. I’ll tell you the key element. Again, the formula is identity, struggle, discovery, result. It’s that second part, that struggle, that makes all the difference in the world. Because when you let somebody know that you’ve faced the same problem that they’re facing now, and found a way to overcome it, now you have their attention, right?

And that’s what gives the sort of entrepreneur, the small business owner, a huge unfair advantage over big companies and corporations with million-dollar ad budgets, is that those companies, anything that ever sees the light of day in an ad has to go through committees, and managers, and lawyers, and they’re not going to share their struggle. When if they do, it’s not going to seem sincere, right?

But you as an independent entrepreneur who gets to make your own decisions, you get to come out and look into a video camera or write even just an email or on your About page and say, “Guess what, my name’s Joe, and this was a big problem for me. I thought I was sunk because I couldn’t get past this. And maybe you feel the same way right now, but here’s what I discovered… I discovered this thing.” And you give it a little proprietary name and then you say, “And it resulted in me turning the problem into a huge opportunity. I now live comfortably, I live on my own terms, and if you’d like to discover what I discovered, I’ll share it with you right now. Just enter your email below and it’s yours.” So simple but so powerful.

James: Nice. Like a compressed hero’s journey.

Kevin: Exactly what it is. It’s about 4 of 16 parts of the hero’s journey condensed. So I’ll give you an example.

James: The mini Monomyth.

Kevin’s sales hook
Kevin: Yeah, right. So here is mine as a sales consultant. So I say, “Hi, I’m Kevin Rogers. I spent years as a dead broke standup comedian until I discovered how a simple joke formula can be used as an irresistible sales hook and began teaching marketers how to use it to skyrocket sales and grow their businesses. Now, I’m one of the most in-demand sales consultants online, earning more in one month than I once did in an entire year. If you like to discover this simple joke formula and turn it into a sales hook, enter your email below.”

And that’s it. That’s probably about 25 seconds, right? But every one of those elements is in there. And for me, dead broke standup comedian is all I needed to say because you get a pretty distinct image from that. You could say that, “All right, nobody wants to be that forever, and so plenty of struggle, let’s see what he did to end it.” Yeah, it’s really effective. So that’s what the book is about.

James: And I imagine you could use this formula with your customers to form some kind of testimonial. I’m sort of imagining what a Kevin 60-second sales hook might look like if you were describing your transformation from independent copywriter to community subscription membership business owner and what results you got from that. It could work just nicely and sit there on my sales page working for me, is that right?

It can work for you
Kevin: Absolutely right. Yeah, that’s another great point James. Sometimes, people say, “Well, this doesn’t apply to me and my business.” I would always challenge people beyond that but even if you feel like there’s no way I’m sharing my story, I’m too private, then use the same formula to tell the story of your customers, your best customers and what kind of results they got.

And you’re exactly right. What you brought me through with Copy Chief lends perfectly because I had a very relatable struggle. And as you can attest James, if it had not been for your very diligent and hands-on guidance, there’s no way we’d be talking about what I’d been able to achieve this year. I owe it all to you. And the fact that you refused to let me off the hook and let me blow it off like I’ve done with other stuff in the past.

James: So the discovery would be the system or the program that turned it all around that broke the cycle of December after December after December, and then the result. You’ve probably even surprise yourself, you could still build in the surprise result I suppose. You could blend the comedy with the fact.

Kevin: Yeah. You totally could. The first 3 parts being the same. What’s interesting is you can linger on any one of those parts. The identity is the one you want to get through immediately, but the struggle for instance, you could have a lot of fun with as a comedian. You could add some jokes in there and be self-deprecating. I could talk about how I was so tired of my own lies. Year after year, it’s like I wasn’t talking to myself anymore. It was like a band relationship going on in my head or something. And you were like the marriage counselor who came in and brought us together. So there’s lots of ways you could have fun with it.

James: Yeah. I remember, I saw a presentation from a guy who got his test result from school, it was like his leaving certificate, and he goes, “I got 85%. And I thought that was pretty good until I realized it was out of 500.” He wasn’t the brightest student. But he did go on to be perhaps the most successful real estate agent in Australia, so I still remember that and I must have seen that presentation 20 years ago.

OK. So I want to move on to the next topic, and that is…

Kevin: Right.

James: We’ve got this formula. It works if you use it for yourself. It works if you use customer use studies. And you could demonstrate the results your program gets. So if you’re a business owner or your service, if you’re a carpet cleaner or a tradesperson, you could use the same stories from, I guess you call them before and afters, is the simple way to explain this. But what about when we’re the business owner. We’re sitting there with a pen and a paper, and we’re having trouble just getting warmed up to this? How do you get into that flow?

Experiencing the writer’s block
Kevin: Yeah. That’s a good question. There’s nothing worse than saying, “OK, today’s the day I write copy.” And you sit there, you open up a blank page or notebook, or you open up a Word doc and you just stare at that blinking cursor, it’s torture. And then people love to say, “Oh, I have writer’s block.” And all these things.

Really, it comes down to this. If you don’t know what to write, it just means that you haven’t done enough research. Or that you’ve just got it built up way too big in your head to know where to begin. And that’s where a little formula or a template, something like the 60-second sales hook, really relieves the pressure because you go, “Well, here are the 4 parts, let me just fill these out to get started, to get the blood flowing.” And you do that.

The Question Authority sales letter starter
Or, I have another training I give that I call “the question authority sales letter starter.” And it’s just a series of questions that you sort of pretend you’re being interviewed, and fill out these questions. Or you could do it with audio. Or you can even have a friend, someone you have good chemistry with, ask you these questions. Just hand them the sheet.

If you just speak sincerely about what you know is great about your product, a lot of the stories you want to tell and the benefits of the product you want to get across will come out naturally in that conversation.

It’s amazing how we’re sometimes so great selling our service or a product one-on-one, like you could meet somebody at a party, who happens to be the perfect what we call the customer avatar for your product. And let’s say they have like some health condition, like TMJ, where your jaw clicks. And they’re like, “God, I’ve tried everything.” And you have a natural solution and it’s the perfect thing, you would have this impassioned discussion about, “Oh no, I can really help you. Trust me. I’ve been through this. I had what you had and here’s what it is.” Oh my God, they wouldn’t be able to wait to get their hands on it. But then you sit down to write a copy and you go, where is all that now? Because that person’s not standing in front of you and you’re not feeling that chemistry.

So a thing like the question authority, it just brings it out of you naturally. And to me, it’s all about getting that first draft out. Most of the times, especially a business owner looking to write their own copy, they have everything they need to sell their product, already in their heads, ready to go. It’s just, how do we get it out of their head and onto the page and formatted to look something like a sales letter. And that’s one great way to do it. Just answer a series of questions.

Repurposing conversations
James: Obviously, I’m super curious about what these questions are but I totally concur with you about the repurposing of conversations. I mean, you’ve created a book from it. I create untold number of blog posts, which are derived from transcriptions of my paid mastermind inside SuperFast membership. We take extracts and publish them, we create infographics from them. I actually record interviews that I do on other people’s podcasts.

So here’s an example, if you were recording your side of this conversation, you could then give that transcription to someone in your team or send it off to Rev.com and pay $1 a minute, to have your side transcribed and break that into bullets or copy, you’d have another whole book. It’d be like the 60-second Sales Hook Part 2, and you could have, how to get started, how to use it for customers, all the things we’ve talked about.

Another thing that I’m super curious about is your use of TMJ and clicky jaw. I’ve never heard of that condition. Why such an obscure reference?

Kevin: [laughs] I don’t know why that pop out of my head, to be honest with you. I wanted to find something that didn’t sound tragic and is common enough to where if you met somebody else who had it, you would bond instantly. And I have a former coaching student who has that product and I’ve helped him write his copy around it. I don’t know, it just popped into my head my right now.

James: Very cool. OK, so the questions. What sort of questions are you going to be asking yourself or having someone ask you to get the gold.

What are the questions?
Kevin: Yeah. So they’re really strategically made to be fun and easy to answer at least in the beginning. I’m actually going to open it up for you here. It starts out with, “What do you do for fun?” almost like dating profile questions. Like: Who are you? Where did you grow up? What are you passionate about? What is the first thing you think of that gets you leaping out of bed in the morning? What makes you angry? Because these are all things that you might not put directly into the copy. But it’s really important to remind yourself what drives you. This is the kind of thing when we spend so much time focused on creating a product and thinking about the sales funnel and picking out book covers and titling stuff that we forget why we created it. What’s at the heart of this thing? What’s really the message? And who are we trying to help with this?

And so, it starts out all about you. I tell people, when you fill out this worksheet, consider it an indulgence because the people closest to you, you know they’re tired of hearing this stuff. Because they’ve been with you through your journey of passion to get where you are now and so you feel like they’re almost subconsciously teaching you to stop telling these stories. A lot of times, this can be a lonely gig, this entrepreneurial thing. We’re all sitting in our offices all day long and we’re on Skype and we’re on Facebook and we’re on Gmail, but it’s not like having a real conversation with another human. And that’s when we get re-inspired. So these questions are meant to reinvigorate that part of you that’s starting at the beginning of why does this even exist? What gives you the audacity to think that you needed to create this thing? And when you start with that, it’s really effective.

And so, things like, if you could snap your fingers and remove one chore from your life, what would it be? Well chances are, that’s the same chore that your best prospect would love to snap their fingers and get rid of. Talk about what you sort of, again, I call this your personal resume and what do you do best, what name of skill that comes to you naturally. Now named a skill that you’ve worked hard to develop, and now name a skill that you’ll be mastering until the day you die.

Again, your best prospect probably could answer similarly to how you answer those questions. And then I get into the heart of the bones of an ad. What have you created for me here? You hear tons of Carlton right there, right? You know that I taught John’s Simple Writing System.

John has a famous 4-step formula. Here’s where I am, here’s what I’ve got for you, here’s why it’s important in your life, and here’s what I want you to do next. Sort of a similar but different thing. But describe for me your product or service, describe what it does. I teach people how to write simple bullets. Bullets are the key to copywriting. That’s sort of the next step. It’s like, if you know how to write a decent feature benefit bullet, you can write your entire ad top to bottom in bullets. And then turn those bullets into a conversation that feels natural, and really becomes a sales letter that sings.

How is Copy Chief helping business owners?
James: Yeah, that’s a good tip. And I often think about the courses like that can be overwhelming for a business owner, which has really led to the refined thinking that we’ve observed. I have the simple writing system, I’ve promoted it. Every client who’s got it has had a tremendous result from it, as long as they do the work and go through it because it’s a great system. I think a lot of typical business owners are thinking that that’s a big task to do; sit down and go through a training.

And that’s where I think simple formulas like the ones you’re talking about, that you can get started with right now, even just listening to this podcast, you’ve already got a couple of formulas. At least one very, very simple one: identity, struggle, discovery, results. And then the second part is to use an interview-question style to extract that information from you or your best prospects. These has been very practical. And that’s why I think communities like yours, where you’re no doubt discussing these things, are very helpful. I did it.

An example of this, I was speaking to my brother-in-law, Manu, he’s the yoga instructor. And I was telling him what I tell most people, and he’s saying, “Oh, I’ve got to launch a master training course for my studio.” He’s very busy. If you can imagine, he’s driving between 2 studios, he’s in hot demand, he’s an authentic Indian yoga teacher, who grew up with this in India, and he’s trying to run the business with his wife, my sister, and also, he’s got to sit down and write sales copy to sell the next training.

I said, “You just need to get into Kevin’s community. Post your questions and get help from people who know a lot about this stuff.” And sure enough, he goes in there and posts the questions and his sales page starts literally writing itself. And he’s the subject matter expert. That’s what I like about this hybrid. He’s the guy that knows the answers to the questions. But he doesn’t necessarily know the questions to ask himself, and he doesn’t necessarily know how to format it. But with just a little bit of coming together of the right questions, the right people, but with his expertise, he can still be hands-on but hands-off at the same time.

Kevin: Right. That’s a great point. That’s the thing, even coming in the Copy Chief, the other great thing is that you could vet quality copywriters, they’re freelancers. Who are the people that stepped up and helped you seem to understand your market best, maybe you could hire that person. But without the advantage of getting to know somebody a little bit, it will be a really stressful thing. You have so many mental barriers in front of the idea of hiring a copywriter.

You know it’s interesting, when I surveyed my list and asked them, “If you’ve ever thought about hiring a freelance copywriter but didn’t, why is that?” And certainly some of them would say, “It seems too expensive,” or “Can’t afford it right now.” But a majority of people would say, “I don’t trust them to represent me or my product, or get my voice right.”

Take a guy like Manu, who is this expert, known expert, trusted expert, for him to try to get a needle in a haystack, find the perfect copywriter, who’s going to understand him and his process. What are they going to do? Go to where he lives and attend his classes for a month and do all these things and like really get to understand? It wouldn’t be practical.

So, chances are, you’re never going to make that leap of faith to hire a copywriter unless you can come into a community and look around and see who are the writers in there who resonate, who might know about your subject, who offer you good help when you’re asking questions about your copy and how to create stuff.

And suddenly now, you’re off to the races because there’s a relationship there. There’s a level of trust before you’ve ever even talked about working together. That’s another thing I love about the community.

James: Well on top of that, it’s self-funded. If you implement step 1, it can pay for step 2, out of pure profits from the warm-up lap, so to speak. You’ve got the engine running, everything is betted in, you’re ready to let rip and now you know what you’re dealing with, and you’ve made a profit from the first implementation. So I think it’s a really useful application that’s been created that didn’t exist before.

Certainly, there are free environments but there’s a lot of issues with them, crowd control being one of them and no qualification at all, no moderation or curation.

What to expect from Kevin’s session on SuperFastBusiness Live
James: When people are invested in themselves, they’re putting more focus on it. I am also interested, what sort of things do you think we’ll be talking about at SuperFastBusiness Live? You’re flying over to come surfing with me and speak at this event, what do you think you will be sharing with the audience?

Kevin: Yeah, I’m definitely going to give some of these formulas and just again, give people a framework to write their own copy, get past this fear, this resistance, this idea that they’re not qualified or that it’s too hard. Really going to give them formulas, templates, ideas for getting over those hurdles. Actually, my goal every time I hit the stage, James, is to trick people into doing fun exercises that when they’re done, they go, “Oh crap, I just wrote copy.”

James: Cool.

Kevin: I’m going to trick people into having fun in writing copy. That’s my goal. That’s my gift to the world.

James: OK. So the result will be, you come along to the event, and by the time you leave Kevin’s session, you will have some of your own copy that’s ready to go and implement in your business that should get you a return on your investment for not only Kevin’s session but probably, the event itself. And that’s just one segment. I’m very excited about that and I’m also very grateful that you will fly over and share with us your best stuff.

Quick recap and action step
So let’s just talk about an action step that we could take to justify the time investment listening to this podcast. We’ve been going for a little over half an hour. Just to recap, Kevin was a broke comedian. He found copywriting, got the formulas down, was able to apply it for himself and for clients. He’s now transformed himself from freelancer to business owner. He’s helping a lot more people than just one at a time. Instead of onesies, he’s now helping hundreds of people at the same time, and helping them help themselves.

The formula that we’d looked at today was the 60-second Sales Hook, which is identity, struggle, discovery, result. So the action step, I would suggest, is to go and look at your current best performing opt-in or sales message, and see if you can refine it using that formula. What do you think about that, Kevin?

Kevin: I love it. I’ve had hundreds of people do just that and write to me love letters about the results. So I would be thrilled for everyone to do that.

James: Well, if you want to write Kevin a love letter, please post in the comment section on SuperFastBusiness.com, where this podcast is being broadcasted. And if you want to tell Kevin what result you’ve got, if you’d like to ask a question, please post there. I do suggest you join Copy Chief if you want to get deeper into this, and you should, as a business owner.

And also, if you happen to be in a situation like Kevin was, where you are a master at your game but looking to grow a business from it, then you might want to talk to me about how I can help you do that as well.

So Kevin, I look forward to catching up with you at SuperFastBusiness Live. Thank you so much for sharing your ideas. And I look forward to continuing this discussion. It’s been about 3 years since we podcast on this show last time. And it’s great to see you continuing, going from strength to strength.

Kevin: Thank you James. And thank you for all your help this year. I’m a proud member of SilverCircle and will continue to be, undoubtedly. Thanks buddy!

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