In the episode:
01:17 – Personal training steps up a notch
03:25 – Getting started in the online space
04:01 – How to stand out
04:55 – Podcasting success secrets
07:57 – What Chris has to offer
09:30 – Keeping things manageable
12:10 – From listener to buyer
15:56 – Points worth noting
17:32 – The biggest challenge
19:36 – Where to find more of Chris
Access recordings from JamesSchramko Live inside JamesSchramko membership
James: James Schramko here. Welcome to SuperFastBusiness.com. Today, we are going to find out how you can cut through the masses and stand out as an authority in your market, and you can turn prospects into customers. To do that, I’ve brought along a friend of mine, Chris Dufey. Welcome to the call, Chris.
Chris: Thanks very much for having me James. It’s an absolute pleasure to be here with you mate.
James: I love chatting with you. I remember the last time we had a chat on Skype, I was doing an interview for your podcast. I’m sure that’s going to come up somewhere in our conversation today about your conversion process and building authority. Firstly, we should just talk about what space you’re in.
You’ve got a website, chrisdufey.com. So what are you up to?
What Chris is up to
Chris: I’m a personal trainer by trade and after 10 years of slogging it out in sessions at the gym, I really decided that I needed to step it up a notch and now, I deal with the fitness side, where I teach people, show people how to get in the best shape of their lives. I also show personal trainers how to run a successful business.
James: This is a pretty crowded market space. When you started out in this space, did you find that there were a lot of people all saying about the same stuff?
Chris: There are a lot of people but also there are a lot of people saying there are different things, and I think the big problem so many people have is using or finding information that actually works because everyone is saying something different and people are just getting confused. So my side was side was really cutting to what works and getting them the best of the best.
James: So as you were starting to build your business, I believe you’ve got two aspect of this and that’s probably important to clarify. You’ve got one business that focuses on end customers, which we call business-to-consumer. And you also help out other trainers, which is your business-to-business market. Is that right?
Chris: Absolutely yeah. I had so many trainers coming to me when they saw the success of what I’ve created with my fitness, which is the business-to-consumer side. It really just slapped me across the face one day and I was like, “Wow. I actually, really need to show people how to do this right.” Because I saw so much of the advice with marketing and business building was just absolutely wrong.
James: So you’ve got to be an expert in a couple of fields. You’ve got to be an expert in your personal training. I can tell just from looking at your pictures that you’ve figured some stuff out there in terms of personal optimization. Secondly, you have to then figure out how to actually market that business to get customers.
I imagine this problem is universal, whether you’re a plumber or an accountant or a lawyer, you’re going to have to let people know that you exist and that you can solve their problems. So how did you try to do it before you got to where you’re at now? What was the sort of starting blocks?
Chris: Really starting off when I wanted to build the online space was absolute confusion until likely I stumbled upon yourself one day James, and I started realizing that for me to stand head and shoulders above everybody else, I needed to produce and showcase my knowledge and produce the value through content. I do this today through videos, podcasts, and I now and then write a couple of blog posts but really not too many.
James: So in terms of standing out and becoming an authority, what have been the most successful steps that you’ve done to become known and to be the go-to person in your market?
Successful steps to stand out
Chris: The content through videos and especially the podcast now. So I have one podcast for each side. So I’ve got the Fit Body Pro, which is the podcast that covers how to get people in the best shape of their lives. And then I’ve got the Turning Pro Academy, which is the fitness business success. I had so many people.
I’ve just come back from 2 weeks of presenting a course in Spain and so many attendees, the coaches are coming out knowing inside out, listening to all my podcasts, they knew the episodes, they’re pushing it out for me. It’s crazy. I’ve had people come up to me everywhere in the world, from different parts of Australia, and now different parts of the world coming up to me, listening to my stuff. Thankfully, I’ve actually had both of the podcasts hit the top charts in iTunes as well.
James: What’s your secret with the podcasting?
Podcasting secrets and tips
Chris: I really take the stance of I’m trying to give the absolute, best quality content away like I want my free stuff to be better than everyone else’s paid. I also think it’s really coming from a point of view that I care. Such as when I’m interviewing yourself, James, with the Turning Pro Academy podcast, like I wanted to dig deep and I wanted to learn and hopefully, I can convey that so the listener gets the biggest bang for their buck.
James: So it’s a lot to do with sourcing good information and then curating it for your audience.
Chris: Absolutely. I think I need to make things as simple as possible because at the end of the day, I don’t want them just listening, I don’t want people just jumping on my list at all. I want people using it. I want people to get actual results from what I’m giving away, and that’s actually happening, which is phenomenal.
James: You pretty much parlayed exactly what happens in the gym, with your knowledge there, into your business side of the business. What do you think someone listening to this could do if they want to become an expert in their field? They want to do a podcast, perhaps you could talk to us about the format you chose and what your workflow looks like.
Chris: With the podcast, I took the view of I wanted to bring experts on. I knew myself that I knew my stuff but I also wanted to learn. I kind of take the beginner’s mindset. But also, by bringing other experts on with me, I get the kind of authority rub off as well because I’m there bringing that content to them. So I do a bit of research on the person I’m going to be interviewing. I know that person has specific strengths that I really want to highlight, and I really come from the view that I want to be able to pick their brains and really get the best quality information out of them.
“Apply the beginner’s mindset.”
The work for me now is, to say the truth, I pretty much only work about 5 hours a day. I’ve got a 2-year-old daughter and my wife is pregnant with number 2 on the way. So I come from the stance that I need to be very effective and efficient with my time. For example, when we actually get off this chat together James, I’m straight out to the beach and it’s already 2 p.m. in the day. I’ll have everything wrapped up.
James: I’ll be doing exactly the same thing. It’s still 6-foot waves rolling into Manly. I’m looking at them out the window.
Chris: Here in Echo Beach, I think it’s about 3 to 4 foot today, but it’s actually really interesting. So I was just back in Manly. I’ll be seeing you soon James because I signed some papers before I flew to Spain. So we’ll actually be part living in Manly as well from October.
James: Oh, that’s fantastic news. I hope you’ll come surfing with me.
James: Now, you’ll be speaking at SuperFastBusiness Live in March, and there, we’ll be talking a little bit about your conversion process. Let’s get that conversation started though because we want to give a bit of an idea about this. What is the main thing you are selling? Let’s just step it back a bit.
You’ve decided to be the authority. You’re focused on getting the best information, you want your students to get results. So you’ve published the podcast, you’ve got listeners, what are you asking them to buy?
“Become a recognized authority in your chosen field.”
What Chris offers
Chris: Let’s say for initially, let’s talk the fitness side of things by getting people in shape. With that business, I’m now selling people into a membership. Obviously after you sell, I haven’t really had enough time because I had a million and one different sales pages, different sequences. I had to write more emails than you can poke a stick at and it’s just too messy. So I’ve combined everything.
James: Gets a bit much, doesn’t it Chris?
Chris: It’s silly at the end of the day. Now, I can put everything in one home, I can drive people to one page, I can give them absolutely everything that they need, but also a big stance of what I’m getting people in that membership is I’m trying not to just fill it with stuff. I’m trying to actually take away as much as possible because I need people in. With so many people struggling to lose weight and keep the weight off, the most effective and efficient means is actually getting them only what they need and nothing more. So that’s what they get on the fitness side.
For the business side of the coaching, my lowest cost program is a $6,000 program. So they’re coming on board and I’m showing them how to set their business up, how to choose the right model of business, how to grow it, how to market it, and how to launch things the way that’s needed for them.
Doing one thing
James: How do you structure that with still managing a reasonable work hour, given that you have two business divisions, two primary divisions. I imagine you probably still head off to the gym here and there as well.
Chris: I did. I just got back to the gym actually before, so I’ve timed everything perfectly for us because at the end of the day, it’s you either walk the talk, but I structure things in days. So the way that I look at my working week and my hours is I only work with one project per day. I don’t try and chop and change. I’m very much trying to get one thing done.
So today, I was just working on some marketing campaigns for the business side. Then I kind of make sure everything’s taken care of as I move along. I’ve only got a couple of team members. I’ve got one full-time assistant with me. Everything on the tech side, I’ve got a specific person for. So I’m obviously really trying to only hone in on what I’m good at and give away everything else.
The $6,000 solution
James: So how do you deliver the $6,000 solution?
Chris: A lot of the program is I give them access to, it’s a membership site but I just kind of call it for myself a delivery site. So I’m putting the steps in there for them. A lot of the coaching is through video presentations so they can rewatch things, they can go through it, and I drip feed them only what they need. I think a lot of people, and I take this from the personal training world, is two things that a good trainer needs is a whip and a leash.
You need a whip to be able to get people to move and do the right things, but you also need a leash to pull them back. I think a lot of the time when someone is trying to build their business is they’re trying to do 101 different things and it’s not about that. It’s only about doing the one thing that really counts. It’s on giving that coaching just through step-by-step way.
James: I’m feeling a lot of echoes for the stuff that I rant on about often. Subscription memberships, clear focus, you’ve got complementary business units here that leverage the same resources, which is quite clever.
Chris: Absolutely. I think it’s something that I also really took for myself James is kind of that Parthenon Theory and it was actually again the universe is talking to us in good timing. I’ve just had some sample products coming. I’m going to be starting a very specific supplement company as well. So I kind of look at all the different pillars standing by themselves and definitely running by themselves, but together, they are unit that helps each other grow. I’ve definitely got my customers and clients between all them as well.
James: OK. So the question we’re going to get is you’ve got your podcast, you’ve got your membership and you’ve got your training program for people who have a fitness business. How do you actually move them from becoming a listener to buying? What is the process?
“How to sell a $6,000 coaching solution”
Turning your listeners to buyers
Chris: So the biggest means of kind of taking them through those steps is taking them back to my website and then obviously list building is so important. On all my websites, you can’t actually purchase anything from the site directly. I’m just giving away free content, very specific for what someone might need, and I’m just using the right sort of value and conversations through email marketing and just kind of walking them through, showing them if this is the right means, and say for the high priced service such as my business coaching program, everyone has to come on through coming in with a call through me.
I kind of put that red velvet rope in the way to make sure that I’m only taking onboard people that… I believe in people are doing things for the right reason as well. I just make sure people are going to be following through with things obviously. If someone’s going to be spending $6,000, a lot of people are going to try and pass the buck if they don’t follow through with it and blame sort of everyone else but themselves, but I’m going to make sure that I’m bringing on the right people. This is exactly the same for the fitness side.
James: So how does that work? You tell them on a podcast to go where and to do what?
Chris: Absolutely. So I’ll kind of have a specific areas on what someone may need to do. Let’s just say for instance I have someone in the fitness side and they want to compete in the physique competition, so I’ve actually got a very specific video series where they can come to the ultimate prep guide. I’ll drive them to the website and tell them where to go, then they can jump on board the website, they can jump on, they get the free training. And then obviously the next steps are going to be getting them on board to coaching.
James: So you do that via emails or a webinar or a sales video or what?
Chris: The training is actually through a video series. So I actually break it up into four lots that kind of give them one specific unit at a time. But also to be able to elongate the conversation as well with them and then it’s simply purely the emails that will take them on to the next steps.
James: That is pretty much exactly what I do, my friend. So I have the Profit Leverage Course , and I have OwnTheRacecourse and Wealthification. They’re all segmented by interest, and they’re multi-email, multi-video, and all of them have a call to action. I find that’s enough to move people to my sales page for the membership.
What about someone looking to buy your $6,000 program? You have a phone call with them. Do they just go to a video or a sales page to find out more about that program?
Chris: So what will happen, initially they’ll come through in the campaign of say a webinar or a video series. To tell you the truth, I’m actually testing both of those different avenues out. So in the presentation that we’ll do at SuperFastBusiness, I will be able to give a bit of the insight as to actually who is the winner with that one. Though the next steps is I’ll take them to a sales page that will tell them what the benefit of coming on the call with me is all about, what the benefit of the program is all about. Then it’s simply on the call like I don’t really see this as a sales call. I’m simply connecting the dots. Does this person have certain problems and what is the solution to that problem, and if it is, then it’s come on board.
James: Wow. That’s good. So how long does it take you on your calls to convert someone into a program like that?
Chris: 15 to 20 minutes. To tell you the truth, I’m always just on there having a good chat with them, getting to know them as well. It’s not very long and I always enjoy the conversations.
James: So it’s more of a decision-making call rather than a sales pitch.
Chris: Absolutely. It’s a yes or no decision at the end of it.
James: You’ve mentioned a couple of things in this episode that I really want to just reinforce. Firstly, the concept of recurring subscriptions – great idea. The idea of podcast – very, very clever front end. Rolling up all of your products into just one – makes so much sense. Understanding who your audience is, whether they’re consumers or business owners, and in this case, you’ve used the same experiences with both your specialty and then your business knowledge to combine your passions there.
And also you mentioned the beginner’s mind. You just slipped that one out earlier and I think that’s a great phrase. I can totally relate to this, having just put on my beginner’s mind going through learning a new sport. We have to be curious, we have to be willing to ask questions, even at the risk of embarrassing ourselves because it’s better to know than to keep our mouth shut and to not ask the question.
You also mentioned the red velvet rope. I covered that recently in a podcast with Matthew Kimberley. He delivers the Michael Port program, “Book Yourself Solid.” He’s also speaking at SuperFastBusiness Live, which is quite fortuitous. He’s one of the funniest presenters I’ve ever seen, which I’m looking forward to.
So let me see if we’ve left anything out here Chris. We’ve talked about getting customers, we’ve talked about being an authority, we’ve talked about turning them into really good customers because you’re filtering through and getting the ones you want. What would you say the biggest challenge has been so far on the travails of setting this up?
Chris: Absolutely. It is creating the discipline to actually hone in and only do what’s needed. It’s so easy to have too much information to be going along with. I know so many other people will be subscribing and getting on so many other people’s listen. They’re kind of just taking small snacks from everybody, and at the end of the day, they’re just wasting so much time. Where if you just boil it down and bring it back to the basics, and a couple of things, again I probably took it from you as well James, so I’ll give you a high five for this one, but it is to question everything.
I’ll also add to that, you’ve got to ask the right questions. The quality of your answers always come back to the quality of your questions. So if you’re able to kind of bring back the real answers that you need and only do what’s needed, I think there’s just so many people out there gallivanting and saying that they’re such a hustler, they’re such a hard worker and they’re up late at night working, I just laugh at that because it’s just not me. I’d rather go to sleep and have a good night sleep, wake up early, get some work done. I will then be able to take the rest of the day off.
James: Yeah. Those poor people. I’m sure they just don’t know what to do. I guess that will be like someone who’s in the gym for 10 hours a day probably won’t get any better body than someone who trains for an hour if they know what to do right?
Chris: Chris: Well if anything, they’ll probably get a worse body. They’re probably falling out of shape because they’re doing the wrong things, and I think that’s especially for the business side where they’re not going to see themselves because they’re just chasing after multiple rabbits, they’re never going to catch one.
James: And they get fatigued and they make bad decisions and so on. That’s how we get bad domains at 3 in the morning. That’s a phenomenon. So Chris, I really appreciate you coming along and sharing this information. I’m looking forward to learning about the test results from which one actually performs better for your conversion process for the high priced membership at the event.
Let’s give a plug out for your podcast. If we are a little bit out of shape and we want to tune up, where should we go and listen?
Hear more of Chris
Chris: You should definitely go over to the Fit Body Pro podcast. Everything’s in there for you to be able to go through to know how to diet, how to train, and all the secrets and ingredients for you.
James: Great. And if we’re a personal trainer looking to improve our business?
Chris: If you want the fitness business success, then that’s why I set up the turningproacademy.com. So you can go there, get all the free coaching and online resource that I’m getting lined up in the podcast is also coming out every week. Or you can absolutely go to chrisdufey.com and get everything.
James: Great Chris. Legend. I love to see someone implementing good ideas, not over complicating it. You’re a great example. Thank you so much. I look forward to enjoying a surf with you at Manly soon.
Chris: Absolutely. Thanks so much, James, I’m really looking forward to presenting at SuperFastBusiness, and I’m really just going to unveil everything. Obviously, I was sitting there, not so long ago, on that seat, and now I’m being able to give everyone the insights into making sure they get what they want, so thank you, James.
Get the recordings from all the JamesSchramko Live events inside JamesSchramko membership
For more episodes, subscribe to the show on iTunes