418 – BCS Part 1 Of 6 – How To Grow And Monetise An Email List Of 250000

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Make the most of your email list

In this episode:

01:59 – More than opt-in forms
02:42 – Do you need an email list?
05:09 – What database?
06:36 – How to get people onto your list
07:38 – A tip for getting started
09:18 – What can you offer subscribers?
12:07 – The importance of tailored sequencing
14:18 – How long to build such a large list?
17:35 – The difference in visit volume
18:47 – How the freemium model works
19:39 – Timing the offer
22:19 – Multiple calls to action
23:32 – Email list hygiene
24:48 – How to reduce cancellations
26:59 – Rounding things out
27:37 – Closing tips

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Part 2 of the series
Part 3 of the series
Part 4 of the series
Part 5 of the series
Part 6 of the series

Tweetables:

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Transcription:

James: James Schramko here. Welcome to SuperFastBusiness.com. This is a business case study series with me and my special guest for this entire six-part series, Matthew Paulson.

Matthew: Hey James, how are you?

James: It’s good to be speaking again. We’ve already done a few episodes together. We did the AdSense episode, and we did the email subscription model episode, and we’ll link to both of those in the show notes.

You and I have decided to put together a six-part series. We’ll be doing a kind of a mini-masterclass on some of the topics that aren’t commonly discussed because let’s face it, a lot of people don’t really have knowledge on it. We’ll be going through some amazing topics. Everything, from growing and monetizing emails lists, right through to how to plan, which projects to work on, selling a website, building revenue very quickly, name changing a business, and then we’re going to some deeper level monetization tips. Are you ready?

Matthew: Absolutely. Let’s do this.

James: So part one of our six-part series is how to grow and monetize an email list of 250,000 email subscribers. You have some significant experience in this. Your website MarketBeat.com has 250,000 email subscribers. You send out 10 million emails a month, and you’re doing revenue in the multiple millions. It’s very exciting that you’ve got this in play. Let’s see if we can find out how this works.

Matthew: Absolutely. If you want to build an email list, you can’t just put an opt-in form on your website and say, hey, I’ve maxed it out. I think that’s a mistake people make. They put up the pop-up form, they hook up the MailChimp, and they say, oh, I’m only getting 100 subscribers a month. That’s all I can possibly get.

The reality is there are just so many different ways to get email opt-ins that people neglect and don’t even think about, and many of them they don’t know about. So you can have a crappy form in your website to get email addresses, you might only be getting a couple of hundred a month, and you could just be leaving a lot of emails on the table and in turn, leaving a lot of revenue on a table as well.

James: Let’s just talk about for a second here why we’re building emails because I think still some people are overlooking this whole concept of actually building an email list. Let’s go right back to square one. Why did you decide to build the email list?

Why build an email list?

Matthew: Sure. So if I have somebody’s email address, I can get in touch with them at any point in the future. So if Google slaps me in any way, and sends me no more traffic in the future, I can still make money because I can always email my list and sell them something. Having somebody’s email address is permission to send them content and sell them stuff. So if somebody’s on my email list, I can make money off them even if everything else goes to hell in my business. There’s always the opportunity to sell them something new.

James: So it’s more or less an asset.

Matthew: Very much so.

James: And it’s a very powerful communication channel.

Matthew: Yeah. I know that every email that I get in my list is worth about $7 to me. You’re not going to get an ad click that’s $7. So if you can get as many as possible, that’s just good revenue.

James: Exactly. And when you say $7, you mean forever, or per year, or how do you measure that?

Matthew: Lifetime. So it’s between the advertising revenue that an email I just would regenerate and then paid subscriptions as well. So I’ve done all the math to figure that out, and I know I can pay anywhere up to 7 bucks and I used to pay 2 or 3 bucks to buy email address and URI. It’s pretty good, and you know, doing advertising to get emails.

James: It’s really interesting. Like through this series, we’ll be sharing some reflections from your experience and sometimes from mine as well. In your case, you have 10 times more emails than I do. You have 250,000, I have about 25,000. My email subscribers are worth $100 per email, per year. So my value amazingly is almost 10 times more. So it’s really interesting, by the way, almost exactly the same revenue, and I’m sending about 10 times less emails per month. So isn’t it interesting how you can find different levels?

So that gives someone a scale they might work towards. You’re going to have a high yield small list, you’re going to have a lower yield high list, but the numbers will sort of factor out. You could probably have a high yield high list if you’d get things right and stack a few ideas together. I’m sure you can have a high list with a very low yield as well. That’s probably the norm in the Internet marketing space.

I know people have lists of 500,000 or 600,000 emails but they barely get someone to open it and they get decimated in any kind of affiliate competition by people with tiny lists with the huge punching weight. So it would be really interesting to reflect on how this works. In terms of what, we’re talking about you having email subscribers in some kind of database. Is that right?

Having a database

Matthew: That’s correct. We do some very specialized stuff with our email list so we can’t use MailChimp or anything like that. So we just have a sequel database and then we do our inward delivery through SendGrid but it’s pretty much the same idea as MailChimp, or Aweber or any of those things.

James: All right. So we’re going to put the geek alarm on there, sequel database. That means you basically have a custom program.

Matthew: Yeah, everybody gets a different newsletter, so it’s not like we could just send out one newsletter to everybody because everybody gets a customized version of it.

James: Do you think what you’ve created is quite complex and would be hard to replicate?

Matthew: I think so because there’s a lot of different pieces that go into it. There is the customer acquisition, the lead generation part, there is the product development and sales part, there’s the email marketing part. There are other people that have tried to copy parts of my business but they don’t see the whole thing. So they can never really get close to what I’m doing.

James: Exactly. So the idea of a podcast like this is we’re going to peek behind the curtains, see what’s happening, not so that someone can rip you off, but so we can get some perspective. Certainly, if you want an off the shelf email system, the type that I use, then you could easily do the sort of things that I’m doing because my systems are almost completely off the shelf. So you’ve got the scale of instantly available through to very hard to replicate and complex, which is sort of the fun thing to talk about, the differences.

How people get into email lists

Let’s talk about how people get on to your email list. We should probably cover some of the obvious points where people would enter your email list and what sort of promise you’re making for them and the process that you go through.

Matthew: Yeah. So obviously website opt-ins are going to be just about everybody’s biggest source of new emails. I think I see a lot of people doing this wrong. People like you and me in the Internet marketing space, people that are technology-focused, we hate advertising, we hate things that are pop-ups, we think they’re intrusive so we just don’t do them. So you might want to put like a sidebar opt-in form on your website or you put something below the post.

But you know, you’re really leaving a lot of opt-in forms, a lot of opt-ins on the table by doing that. If you don’t have an opt-in form that people see right away, most people are just going to miss it. I think if you have scruples about not having a pop up because you think it’s annoying or not having a welcome gate or anything like that, just shut up about it for a week and try it and see if you like the results before you say no to that.

Where to start

James: Right. So what are you saying is the shortcut. Someone starting out fresh, they got a blog, haven’t really thought too much about emails, what would be your first move?

Matthew: So the two keys are to have an opt-in form that’s visible. So just go ahead and do an entry pop up and then do an opt-in form right below your post. So after somebody’s done reading the post, they’re going to want something to do next. Give them an opt-in form right there to get their email address.

James: Fantastic. Yeah, we’ve done comprehensive testing for our sites in our sort of market, and we found that having an opt-in on the footer wasn’t very good. But above the options menu works really well. We’ve also had very good stuff when we’ve put in in-content links like get the transcription, very relevant, high opt-in rates. We’re using things like Leadboxes for that. Very, very effective.

Matthew: Yeah. And it’s going to vary on your industry and what your template looks like. What works for me is not going to be what works for James, and what works for James might not be what works for you. So it’s really something you’ve got to try. But when you get started, a lot of people have had success with an entry pop up so just do that. And then below the post is a place to start to try to and you will find out the stuff that work well. So start with that best practice and try other stuff to see if something else works better.

James: And on my site, I take into factor things like that 65% of the people are repeat visits. So I’ve got this bar at the top, like a hello bar, but it’s a custom coding on our site, and that gets a lot of opt-ins. Just a red call to action, it’s there all the time. That’s one of the primary sources for people to get a course.

We’ve talked about placement. What are you actually offering people?

Product offerings

Matthew: Yeah. So our lead magnet is our free daily newsletter. Our freemium product, so we sell a free newsletter and we have a paid newsletter. Our lead magnet has always been the free newsletter. The key is just to make that, whatever your offer is if it’s a video, an e-book, whatever, is just to make it relevant to the content on the page. So I know that if somebody is reading an article about Bank of America the company, I better mention that Bank of America in my pop up opt-in form for that page. So whatever you can do to make your lead magnet and the messaging of your pop up or whatever opt-in form you have to make it as close to your page as possible, you can be more likely to get opt-ins.

James: It’s so true. The best opt-ins we have is our Leadboxes, which are to download the transcription PDF for the article. So it’s hyper-relevant because it’s exactly related to the article. My team have a simple standard operating procedure or SOP where they just replicate Leadbox. Everytime we put a new post, they create a brand new Leadbox that links people straight to that resource. So they opt-in and they get sent the transcription PDF to their inbox. That process gets 80% opt-ins. Anyone who clicks on that Leadbox, 70-something, 80-something percent, will actually enter their email address. Using a bit of technology, you can pre-populate those fields if they’re already known to us, it’ll put their email address in there from the screen, which is fantastic. So it’s about reducing friction and making it easy for people to opt-in.

Matthew: Absolutely. Yeah. I was just going to say that regardless of what your website is about, don’t just have one lead magnet. Have five or six and then show the right one based on the category of content in. So you might write about five or six different things and then a good pop up form script can show, you can specify, I want to show this lead magnet on this category in WordPress or this and this one, so you can have a few that are more targeted and relevant versus just having one for everybody. I think that is a pretty good game plan for people getting started.

James: It’s a great suggestion. That’s why we have on our top opt-in is a general course, which will apply to everyone coming to my sites, like how to make more profit. I also have OwnTheRacecourse, which is a general course, and I have Wealthification, which is more the business category. Three separate general courses that people find through different paths. All of them have their own direct URL, where I can send people to what’s called a squeeze page, where there’s really no distractions. They’re also available as leadboxes in various parts of the site, and then we have our in-text leadboxes. So you know, just from both you and I, have five or six minimum different ways that people can give us their details.

Special sequencing

And of course, let’s talk from the technical perspective, when they do opt-in, they’re not getting the same generic stuff straight out of the gate. I imagine that you have some kind of special sequencing, or tagging, or sequence that will apply to people depending on what they opted in to. Is that right?

Matthew: Absolutely. That’s totally the way to do it now. You can’t just have one general autoresponder series. You need to have one based on the content they receive or the content they signed up for. You have to be very specific. Relevancy is the name of the game now, name of marketing. So if they sign up for something about website building niche, you get emails about website building. The more I guess granular you can get with that, the better.

James: I agree. It’s relevancy and context. So a simple thing that we do that’s replicated when someone opts into a course, a multi-part delivered course, and by the way, just as an aside, I changed from a PDF guide or cheat sheet, which was 19 pages to a multi-part course because what I found was when I was scrubbing my email list, which is under the topic of list hygiene or culling non-responsives, a lot of people were opting in for a free report but never opening a single email after that, they were using throw-away addresses, etc.

But I found a multi-part sequentially delivered course implies future contact, and you could also tag in there and receive news. But what we do is we hold people out of our general broadcast until the course has been delivered in full and then we put them back into our main course. So I’m wondering if you do something similar to that.

Matthew: Yeah, I tested that a while back to send the autoresponder series and then always send broadcast emails out after that. It didn’t work quite as well for us to have people wait, so we just cancelled that split test. Everybody who’s on the list, whether they signed up yesterday or 5 years ago, they’ll get any broadcast email we send out. We’ll kick people off if they haven’t opened anything in 6 months but otherwise, you’ll get the message.

James: Right. So there you go. That’s a good example of different approaches getting results that work for the individual. First of all, the obvious question, to build such a big list, how long did that take you and how many visits are you getting to the site to enable that volume to be so high?

How long to build a list

Matthew: We started collecting opt-ins about four and a half years ago. A lot of that growth has been within the last 12 months just because we’ve really scaled up. The amount of traffic we get, the amount of content we produce, we scaled up our advertising tip by email addresses or by leads. So right now, let me look at my numbers, it’s coming up quick. In the last 90 days, we’ve had about 60,000 organic opt-ins and we’ve also bought another 30,000 paid opt-ins.

James: Sure. And where are you primarily buying opt-ins from?

Matthew: So we do co-registration advertising. Are you familiar with that James?

James: I am. It’s where you sign up for something and then there’s like a thank you page with a list of other things you can tick a box to receive information for.

Matthew: Yup. So there are a few companies that do this. It’s big in the finance investing space and it’s really easy to buy those. Like in the Internet marketing space, I know Tim Burke offers, he does co-registration for that industry. I don’t know if you know that but he does. So I know that you could buy lead for like a dollar in the Internet marketing space from Tim through his partner websites, through co-registration advertising. So we do that. We buy them from some big-name websites like thestreet.com, Jim Cramer’s website, and much of other well-known financial places. You’re probably see an ad from Market Beat if you ever go to a big name finance site and you see a co-reg ad, you’ll probably see our unit there. So we can spend $2 to $3 for an email address and make $7 or so over the course of a year and half. So that’s a pretty good ROI under the advertising spend, in my opinion.

James: Exactly. And I’m certain if I started buying co-registration leads that my $100 per customer is going to be blown out of the water just because of the smaller, concentrated, organic approach I’ve taken when you start having paid traffic, you really got to know your numbers, which you clearly do. A lot of marketers don’t.

Matthew: Is there a reason that you haven’t done co-registration advertising yet?

James: There is. There is a reason I haven’t done it. But it’s not something that would stop anyone else from doing it. It’s a different reason altogether. But certainly, in the past, I’ve tried every possible paid traffic method, including like Ezine inserts, etc., and I’ve found many of them to be effective.

Matthew: What are some of them that worked well for you?

James: Basically, putting an inline ad in an email magazine, like for Allan Gardyne’s email system. That worked well. I’ve had ones where I take forum ads and sponsorships in private communities. I’ve used forum signature links. I’ve done Ezine articles. I’ve done U.S. free ads back in the day. I’ve done all types of paid things, from seven search through to AdWords and Facebook, even if it was brand new. I was one of the first people advertising on there.

These days, you can have things like Twitter and LinkedIn, etc. But for now, I’m just going to purely organic. I don’t even have an affiliate program and it’s fine. So it’s a lot to do with choices around the kind of business you want to build. But I can see in your business, for your model, it makes a lot of sense.

How many visits do you get to the site for you to be able to generate 60,000 organic leads in the last 90 days?

Site visits

Matthew: Yeah. It’s between 2 million and 3 million page views a month. So it’s quite a bit. Our opt-in rates aren’t great. It’s only about 1%, but that’s just because the industry we’re in, the finance industry, people just read a ton of different content. They sign up for a ton of different lists. That’s just the nature of the industry we’re in.

James: That’s quite a general like it’s a broad market you’re in and it makes sense that it’s high volume. A lot of people listening to this would have substantially less traffic, even in my case. I’m sure we probably get 100,000 visits a month. So it would take us 10 times longer, literally, to build at least 10 times bigger, unless we change something else or force-feed it with some paid traffic.

So let’s talk about the next phase. You’ve got the email address and you’re sending out newsletters, and you mentioned you have a freemium model and we’ll explain what that means. Basically, people can get something for free but the “mium” part is the premium part, which they’re going to pay for something. How does this part work?

The Freemium model

Matthew: Yup. So with our free newsletter, you can follow two stocks. You’ll get news and updates about them in your daily newsletter, and then with the premium one, it’s 15 bucks a month. You can follow as many as you want. You’ll get the newsletter earlier in the day, you’ll get some more customizability about your newsletter. You can get email and SMS about your stocks. So it’s just a lot more usable than a free newsletter is.

About 3% of our free subscribers will convert to paid eventually, ends up bringing some pretty good revenue. I think we have about half a million dollars a year in just subscription revenue from people that buy that product. So it’s a nice little business. I have found there is a lot more customer support than expected. I had to hire somebody to kind of manage that for me. But it’s definitely good business because nobody can really take that away from you. So it’s going to be there as long as you keep delivering your great product to that customer base.

James: So let’s talk about the flow. Someone opts into your email, whether it’s for a co-registration or somewhere on your website, when do you start making these offers?

When to make offers

Matthew: Like probably the next day after they sign up.

James: So it’s not even on the opt-in form.

Matthew: It used to be. So we found that co-register is just the best monetization opportunity for a thank you page. We can make 80 cents or 90 cents for every new email sign up just from the co-reg we run in our thank you page. So we don’t promote our product on our thank you page anymore. But the next day after they sign up for our newsletter, they will get an email introducing our paid product.

And over the course of the next 60 days, there’s an autoresponder series that does all visual stuff, testimonials, FAQ email, endorsements, products and features, and all the usual product launch formula-type emails are in there. By the end of the autoresponder series about half of the people that will ever convert convert in that first 60 days.

James: Nice. So again, it’s autoresponder series at the same time as their news.

Matthew: Yes. Sometimes they might get 2 emails a day.

James: And does every single news broadcast have the offer?

Matthew: Yeah. It’s in the header and then the footer. It switches up so each day of the week, it’s something different. But it talks about the features and benefits and how it’s linked to a free trial to sign up.

James: Right. One of the best example of that, I’ve seen is Sovereign Man. They do a really good job of offering every single email and very frequent emails. In my case, we have news, blog posts and updates and content. Every time we let people know there’s new content, they’re sent to the content. Every single piece of content has a call to action. It’s part of our standard operating procedures. It’d be hard-pressed to find a blog post on my site that doesn’t let people know how they can get more value or take the next step. So it’s kind of a long line fishing technique.

And over time, and it really can take time. In some cases, it will take years for people to get that dripping tap. Eventually, they’ll take the next step. Something will just dislodge or they’ll resonate with the post and by also doing a weekly digest, we’ve found that we bunch up the week’s worth of post. We put a week’s worth together in one summary post and we’ve given people a choice to opt into weekly email instead of the daily one so that they can get the frequency that they want without having to leave my email list. It’s kind of like the parachute or the safety net.

If they can’t handle the daily stuff, they can opt-in for the weekly. And the weekly digest is a nice little gathering of the top tips and we can literally send an email out that has six different topics, and one of those might be of interest. Do you have multiple calls to action in any of your emails?

Multiple calls to action

Matthew: Yeah. So in our newsletter, there’s usually two to three spaced out between, and then in our dedicated sensor, email blaster, audience, there’s typically, in the first paragraph, we try to have a link and then right above the signature line, we have a link and then below the signature, there’s another link. I found that maximizes the click-through rates to whatever content we want to promote.

I try not to promote more than one thing in any given email. That might work for a newsletter with promoting different by posts but if I want them to buy something or if I want them to go to a piece of content, like a single piece of content, I try not to confuse the topic of the email. I just try to focus on the one thing. And if I need to promote something else, I’ll just a different email with the next thing.

James: Gotcha. Yeah, what I found again, different experience is, I’ve used the P.S. signature almost exclusively to sell my live event, and we sell 200 tickets at around $1,000 each from the P.S. file of our regular blog posts, it’s just like a by the way, “Hey, P.S. There’s an event happening in March.” So it can be quite different to the blog post topic but that’s a prominent piece of real estate that I think everyone should utilize.

So, what do you do in terms of the email list where you have little black holes like people stopped opening emails because they’ve got so many emails coming into their inbox or they change email addresses. What sort of list hygiene do you do?

Little black holes

Matthew: Yeah, we do a lot. If somebody bounces their email address it goes bad or if they do a spam report, we’ll just take them out of the list, right away automatically. I think a lot of ESPs would do that for you but we do that. If anybody’s going to spam report my emails, if their email just isn’t valid, I don’t want them in my list.

And then I also check for signs of life. So if people are opening my emails, that’s great. I’ll send them stuff forever. But if nobody opens something in 6 months, they’ll get a couple of emails saying, “Hey, we noticed you haven’t opened our emails in a while. Click this link to keep your account active. Otherwise, we’re going to remove you from the list.”

James: Do you get much email churn?

Matthew: Yeah. It’s probably, our list’s churn is by 3% or 4% a month just because we do send a lot of email and it’s not for everybody and people kind of get on to different financial lists and get off of them, get back on them. So it’s just part of the industry we’re in.

James: Yeah, I think it’s anyone with the email list is going to experience people leaving. What would you say to someone who’s reluctant to hit send on their email because they’re worried that people unsubscribe?

Hitting send

Matthew: Yeah. You know, when I first started doing the paid product, I took every cancellation personally. I thought I must have done something wrong, I must have pissed them off. You just can’t let yourself get hung up on stuff like that. You’ve got to think of an unsubscribe as somebody that is just going to your website and then they leave. That happens all the time. Don’t think about it. It’s kind of the same thing with an email list. It doesn’t mean they hate you. It doesn’t mean you’re a terrible person. It just means, they don’t want to get that email right now. That’s OK if somebody unsubscribes.

James: Yeah, I used to take it personally, too. And I would send an email like once every 6 weeks or 8 weeks. Very infrequently. People will actually chase me down and say, “Hey, everything OK? I haven’t heard from you for a while.” In the end, I just realized that if I don’t send emails, I can’t help people properly because they’re not going to find out about solutions that will get them to a better place. So I should send them an email to let them know.

It’s kind of like when I’m a rabid consumer of something, I want them to send me emails. I’m very interested in surfing, and I really want to get my daily surf report. I don’t mind if they’d let me know about a new wetsuit or a surfboard because I’m interested in that stuff and I’m not going to, “Oh, da** it, they’re trying to sell me surf equipment.” I’m a surfer. I do buy this stuff anyway. It seems ridiculous when you think of it from the point of view of a customer.

Matthew: Yeah. And it’s a mistake if you email your audience once every 6 weeks, I think that’s a mistake. People are going to forget that they opted in to your list and then they see the email from you out of nowhere and they kind of forgot who you are, they’re going to think that you’re just a spammer trying to sell them crap, that you have no relationship with them.

I think that if you have a list that’s of any size, you have to email them at least once a week.

James: I agree with you.

Matthew: Keep them active, really.

James: And you mustn’t ever email people who didn’t ask to be emailed. I still everyday, receive emails from people who’ve got nothing to do with anything that I’ve ever expressed an interest in. It seems to be some kind of a racket where people just gather email addresses and start sending out sort of viral invitation-type things.

Matthew: Yeah.

Quick recap

James: So, monetization tips. Let’s round this episode out. Just a quick recap, we’ve talked about the fact that you’ve built a large email list. We’ve given some specifics on sizes, yields, volume of emails, systems being used, what sort of promises are being made, where you put the opt-in, what you send them, when you offer them, whether you segment them, partition them. We’ve talked about the percentage of people who might take an offer, how much they’re paying, etc. We’ve given some specific numbers. I think we’ve delivered some real value in the terms of the fact here.

In part six of this series, we’ll be going deeper into website monetization tips. So Matthew, if you’ve got any final comments on this episode before we go into the action steps from this episode.

Final comments

Matthew: Yeah, I’d say monetization is there’s a lot more ways to make money from an email list than selling your products or being an affiliate. Your thank you page is probably one of the most valuable advertising assets your company has.

So after somebody signs up for your mailing list they land on your thank you page. Anybody that lands on that page is already showing they’re willing to take action because they gave you their email address. So anybody that’s on that page is very likely to take another action, so if you can put an ad on your thank you page, you can put an upsell to one of your products on your thank you page, you can put a co-registration advertising unit on your thank you page.

I might make as much as a dollar for every person that lands on my thank you page, just from the ad units. You know, that’s a thousand dollar CPM, which is just unheard of in Internet advertising.

So if you’re not using your thank you page, use that. Think about email ads and sell or rent my list, and there’s just a lot of other ways that people are making money through email that somebody who just sells products and promotes other people’s products might not be aware of. So do some digging and find out those opportunities and take advantage of them.

James: Yeah. And you can even do list guarantees by having people subscribe to another thing of yours like a podcast, or a YouTube channel, or a Twitter. So that if they do happen to unsubscribe, they’re still within reach or they can be exposed to a different remarketing cookie for example. We haven’t even talked about that but I imagine you’re dropping a remarketing cookie on your site?

Matthew: We don’t do that. Perfect Audience and some of those are a little bit skittish about working with financial advertisers.

James: Ah. So there may be some constraints around who can use that.

Matthew: Yeah. I’ve tried it before, I haven’t gotten great results from it so we just haven’t really messed with it too much.

James: Oh, I’ve got amazing results from following up people who visit a checkout page but don’t buy. You can run really tight campaigns. I think I spent just over a thousand dollars on Facebook and sold 25 tickets at a thousand dollars each for my event just from people who were on Facebook, who’d been to my checkout page but hadn’t bought a ticket. So very small audience, very tight targeting and a really specific message. So if your website is the type that you’re allowed to do that, it’s certainly worth looking into. We’ll probably revisit that in website monetization tips in part six.

So Matthew, our next podcast episode is going to be side projects and why you shouldn’t do them. We’re going to look at a specific case study that you had, that taught you a valuable lesson. I’m looking forward to that one.

Matthew: Yeah. And I do have a book coming out about email marketing, so everything we talked about today I’ll go over in great detail in that book. It’s going to be called Email Marketing Demystified, and if you want to get a free copy when it comes out, just go to the domain MyEmailMarketingBook.com.

James: Look at you, always gathering that email list.

Matthew: Yeah.

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