524 – How ChatBots, Voice-Powered Search and Artificial Intelligence will Disrupt Your Market

Podcast: Download (Duration: 34:42 — 31.9MB)

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Dale Beaumont

Podcast highlights:

01:15 – James’s eye view of Dale’s background
02:35 – Business advice and artificial intelligence
03:38 – What AI is doing to the internet marketing landscape
06:22 – The technology you should pay attention to
10:53 – What do the changes mean for business owners?
15:54 – Entering the messenger space
18:57 – E-commerce via messenger
19:50 – Is world domination next for Facebook?
22:06 – Earpieces and implants
24:15 – Some of the tools you can use today
26:15 – What’s going on with BRiN
28:52 – Possible first steps after hearing this podcast
33:09 – Last thoughts for the listener

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Transcription:

James: James Schramko here, welcome back to SuperFastBusiness.com. Today I have a special guest, a friend of mine I’ve known for many, many years. In fact, I’ve known my guest today for probably over 20 years, which is a long time, actually. Welcome, Dale Beaumont.

Dale: Thanks so much, James.

James: In the early days, I remember you were this little kid on the news publishing books. That’s how I first heard about you. What a journey it’s been.

Dale: It has. It’s been quite incredible. That publishing journey was over 10 years ago now, but I’ve been doing lots of other things since and looking forward to having a chat and to seeing how I can add some value to the audience.

James: So just a quick overview from my lens. I’ve known you first as this little kid publishing books. Then I actually went and had a chat to you at some point in your office up on the Northern Beaches, when I was asking you about how I might go about structuring a book, and you were quite an expert in publishing and you had a subscription model back then where you were helping people with business education.

Then you developed a big platform called Business Blueprint, which is I guess a live event/membership hybrid program that’s been very successful. And I’ve seen you in different places all around the world now. Whenever I go to a conference or an event, you’re often there. And you’re one of the big players in Australia, at least for CRM software sales, and I’ve known you through that community.

And here we are. Watching you now, I’d have to say you’re a bit of a trendspotter, and your newest venture is into this new area of technology. And the bullet points I’ve made about our chat were, “chatbots, voice-powered search, and artificial intelligence.” And you’ve got this new project called brin.ai. Why don’t you tell me what brought you to this point and what is BRiN?

What BRiN is

Dale: Yeah, OK great. So for the last 10 years after publishing all those books, I’ve been working in the space of business education, and we’ve built Business Blueprint into one of the largest and most successful business education companies, and it’s been a wonderful journey. However, in terms of their worldwide audience, we did some research and found out that there are 500 million small business owners around the world, and only one percent of those business owners have access to a business adviser. And we looked at the reasons why, and a lot of the reasons are kind of proximity, also the cost as well, and the fact that it’s simply not sort of scalable.

And so we thought, wouldn’t it be cool if we could build a piece of technology that could give every person running their own business the chance to have a business adviser? So we thought, how’s that going to happen? We knew it wouldn’t happen through live events or meetups or one-to-one coaching, which is kind of what I’ve done for the last 10 years. So we knew we had to think differently.

And then we decided, well, it’s got to involve technology. And when I started diving deep into that, this concept kept coming up time and time again, called artificial intelligence. And this is really the next big thing, and all the big companies now, it’s kind of like a nuclear arms race in a way between all the big companies of the world such as Amazon and Apple and Google and Facebook and Microsoft. They’re all going in this direction and it’s only going to be another couple of years before that comes down to all major companies are going to need to have a strategy in terms of using artificial intelligence. And they’re either going to be the disruptor, or they’re going to be the disrupted because it’s really not going to go away.

So we can kind of get lost talking about the AI space for hours, but I think what is important to sort of notice is the fact that the journey has already started, and in terms of internet marketing there are these things called chatbots, which is really the precursor to this new type of search and a new way that people can capture details, can actually make sales and also to do e-commerce now, all through the power of chatbots. So keen to chat about that, and answer as many questions as you can fire at me.

A changing landscape

James: OK, so quick recap. We’re watching the landscape change around us, and we can either be the taxi driver with all of our investments tied up in a special number plate that allows us to have a taxi and then along comes Uber. So we can decide whether we want to be the taxi stuck in the old world or we can pay attention to the changes that are not going to go away. And I guess we have to look at things like Blockbuster versus Netflix to see that these things can have a profound change in the marketplace.

The other thing, just from a consumer perspective, we have noticed things like Siri popping up on our phone, and then on our desktop. And we’ve noticed that we can prompt our computers now, we can just talk into the computer and it can dictate. And then when we load up videos to Facebook, it can automatically caption them. And then there are services like Trint, which are highly intelligent transcription services that can transcribe your voice almost instantly.

And then I noticed some of the marketers are now using Messenger, and tie that in with a presentation I saw, that was showing how big an investment Messenger is for Facebook and how important it is for their land grab, where they’re squeezing out their competitors. I think it’s obvious that chat, and artificial intelligence, and voice-powered things, in general, are moving forward.

Things to pay attention to

So what would you say is the first thing we need to understand? We’ve got an overview of why this is important. I guess we should spend just a moment on what. So I’ve given a couple of examples there. What other things are already here or just around the corner that we might want to pay attention to?

Dale: OK. I can describe it this way that every 10 years there’s a major kind of revolution in computer technology and how we interact with devices. From 1985 to 1995, it was the desktop computer, and that kind of reigned supreme for about 10 years. And then in about ’95, the laptop computer then rose to prominence, and over the next decade, it just went crazy. Then in 2005 to then 2015, it was all about the mobile. And Blackberries, and then the iPhone and all of them kind of went that way.

If you think about this kind of evolution, then we’re on the cusp right now of the next kind of big revolution in computer technology, and if I can describe it this way, before it was about putting, the 80’s or ’85 to ’95 was about putting a computer in everyone’s desk. And then the laptop generation was about putting a computer in everyone’s backpack or briefcase. And then the next one was about how do we put a computer in everyone’s pocket? That was the mobile revolution. Now, it’s how do we put a computer into every person’s ear? Which is basically what Siri is and what Apple has now released with the EarPods as well. And also this is happening with Google Home, it’s also happening with Amazon Echo as well, which is powered by Alexa, and it’s reported that Apple will also be bringing out a voice-powered computer.

This is kind of crazy when you think about it. We’re moving into a world where you will interact with computers without a screen. Imagine that. You can actually get work done, you can check emails, you can book flights, you can find out the information about anything, you can have recipes read to you and you don’t actually need to be on a screen. It changes everything because you’ve only been able to interact with computers when you’re either at a desk or you’ve got something in your hand. But now you can interact with computers when you’re going for a run, when you’re driving in your car. And now, previously unproductive time can become productive time.

This is going to be the next 10 years, but it’s going to be done in a series of milestones and steps. And the first step is really chatbots. Chatbots are really the kind of the 1.0 version of artificial intelligence, and that will go through a couple of iterations, and then we’ll move on to the next kind of wave, which will be digital assistants, and then we’ll move on to real artificial intelligence by the end of the next decade. It’s pretty exciting, and so we can get lost in the deep stuff, but I think we can talk a lot about what’s happening here and now and how people can start today, using this new technology to help them grow their business.

James: Yeah, it’s pretty profound stuff, especially if you haven’t sort of explored this yet. I’m certainly concerned by things like turning our unproductive time into productive time. I’m just wondering when we’ll lose our capacity to have time off or to have fun. You know, like for example surfing is such an analog thing for me. I take off my watch, there’s no technology involved, and I enjoy that. But I also think keyboard and a mouse is pretty much the dumbest thing ever. I remember 10 years ago being frustrated because I can’t type, my internet’s so slow, thinking, why can’t we just talk to the screen or touch things or move it around like in Minority Report?

It just makes sense that we’re going down that path, and certainly, our phone has become extremely powerful compared to the first iterations of phones. We can talk to it, and it can play our favorite tunes, and for some reason, it seems to know where my car’s parked and how long it’s going to take me to drive to the destination that I haven’t told it I’m going to, it’s recognizing all these algorithms. And I’ve been reading things like Homo Deus which talks about how humans are going to start living longer and merging into machine at some point, we’re going to be able to eradicate a lot of the things that have been killing us up until now.

What it means for business owners

So exciting times. It could be very scary for some people, but instead of getting way too deep, why don’t we just sort of reflect on what does this mean for us? Knowing this, and if we accept that there will be change, and we’ve got an idea what some of it might look like, how do we as a business take advantage of this?

Dale: OK, cool. I think the first step is to look at the here and now. You know, we need to have our head in the clouds but your feet on the ground. So let’s talk about the feet on the ground stuff.

Let’s talk about Messenger. Because you can do a lot of this stuff right now. Social messaging is now growing faster than social media. I think in total now, in terms of Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, WeChat, all of those, there are over three billion users now that are using messaging apps of various types on a daily basis. And even the fact that Messenger has an app is growing faster than Facebook itself. So even though it is a Facebook asset, it’s now past over a billion users. This is massive marketplace, and I think there are billions of messages being sent now, probably every hour.

Now, what Facebook is doing is making it possible for business people to connect with businesses through Messenger. So instead of having to call up Telstra if you want to dispute a phone bill or whatever, you can now just jump onto Messenger and you can chat. Now that’s a good experience because you don’t have to maybe get stuck in 45 minutes. But it could still take 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes for you to actually get a human to actually reply.

Well, you can now actually build in automation to directly into Facebook Messenger through something called the chatbot. And the way that I would describe a chatbot, even though it does have a definition, I think the definition most business owners understand is, I basically call chatbots digital employees. So imagine if I said to you, “James, I got a friend of mine, he can work for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. You don’t need to feed him; you don’t need any holiday pay, sick pay, anything like that, completely free. Would you want this staff member to work for you?” You’d say, “Of course, absolutely.” Well, imagine if you could have 10 of those people. That’s kind of what chatbots could be. So you can develop a chatbot-fueled business, which is like a digital employee. And it can be programmed to do different types of activities.

One of the different types of activities is basically pretty low level, but just answering questions. So what you could do is write a list of a hundred different questions that people could ask, you know, when are you open or do you stock this particular product, or how do I get to your location, or are you open on the weekends? And you could actually program answers to all of those. So when someone asks one of those questions that you’ve dealt with before, then you can just instantly get an answer, an instant response.

And you can see if there’s a question that you didn’t have an answer to, you get an alert and you can actually take over that conversation or you can decide whether you want to add it to your digital employee’s brain. So then, within a couple of weeks or months, it can then know the answer to hundreds and maybe even thousands of commonly-asked business questions. So that’s kind of like a customer service style bot.

Now some of those activities just involve question, answer. Question, answer. And that’s kind of like step one. However, what you can then do is that programming sort of automation. For example, someone says, “I’ve lost my password.” And then you can go back and go, have an instant reply, “OK, I’m here to help, can you please let me know what is your last name?” You know, then what’s their first pet’s name, and then “What did your mother have for breakfast when she was born?” or whatever the dumb, silly question is, right?

And then it can ask a series of any based on the fact that if those answers are correct, then it can issue you with a password. Now that would be something that you’d normally have to wait on the phone for Telstra for like an hour to get back a “Here’s the answer.” When you can now get that reply within 30 seconds. So you can build in these automations.

Then you can go even further and actually start to turn those into sales conversations. So for example, we have a client of ours who’s built a chatbot called Ellie the emu. And if you’re interested in touring outback Australia, you can have a chat to Ellie and Ellie will ask you a series of eight questions, and based on that will recommend you one of 15 different types of tours that they offer based on your personal recommendation.

So this is effectively a salesperson bot, and it works 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and it kind of works all the time. I might just pause there, because you may have some other questions, and then I can keep continuing on.

James: No, I like this. It ties really well into the topic of segmentation, which we’ve been talking about a lot on this podcast with Ryan Levesque’s Ask method. It’s about finding out very quickly in a process what is going to be relevant for your prospects so that you can deliver the correct solutions. It’s really just another modality or a tool that can be used to get someone to the right answer quickly. I’ve noticed some marketers using tools like ManyChat to start entering into that messenger space.

I also just want to reflect on what you said about how social messaging has become so important. I certainly was shocked when a few years ago I was looking at my email analytics from our Google account. And at that time we had Google accounts for each employee and we had Skype. And what I discovered was that I was by far and away the heaviest email user in the entire business, and the next closest person in my business (and most of these people were under 30 years old and in the Philippines) was just a fraction of my use. But when I moved to Slack, everything explained itself, because in Slack, which is more of a messaging software tool, the team are sending like 89 percent of the messages, the direct instant message to each other, and they were sending thousands of these things.

So that is the big iceberg. You know, the older generation or the people who are still on emails and Skype, they’re really missing out on this instant message revolution.

To get back on track, how do we start tapping into these chat robots? You mentioned to me at some point that there are a lot of providers who make software that will hook up to Facebook’s messenger program. Is that correct?

Dale: Exactly. So this is a new kind of gold ratchet that started, and there’s a whole bunch of companies out there that are creating products to help people to get onto these messaging platforms. I can rattle off a few names right now. One of them is called wit.ai, which was actually acquired by Facebook about three years ago. Another one is called api.ai, which was acquired by Google about three months ago. And there are a couple more different ones that are out there too. But a lot of those are rarely designed for developers. So if you’re a developer, you could look at wit.ai, or you could look at api.ai. If you’re just a business owner or just a weekend hacker, then you should look at a tool like Chat Fuel. It’s a great tool and the one that we’re now using with a lot of our clients. ChatFuel.com, and it basically makes building a chatbot as easy as stop and drag effectively. It’s kind of like what WordPress is for websites. Chat Fuel is for chatbots. So that’s a really great tool.

The other thing that I wanted to mention as long as we’re on this kind of journey from my customer service bot to solving-problems bot to then salesperson bot. You can then have booking bots as well. So you could actually have someone ask a few questions and then qualify them and says, “Yes, you now meet that criteria. I can now help you book a 15-minute consultation with James. Here’s his availability over the next week. Please select that time that you like,” and it goes straight into Calendarly or whatever you’re using. So you could have like appointment setters now booking appointments.

Is world domination next for Facebook?

But the thing that is already happening in America and will be launched I believe this year is Facebook payments. And so, Facebook is now becoming almost like it’s a payment system as well where if you have been talking with a chatbot and they’re helping you to find this great pair of shoes and you really like them, and it can basically say, “Well, do you want to buy them?” And you can go, “Yes, I do,” and it would just then say, “Thumbprint,” or “Put in your Facebook ID,” and then you just purchase the product, and you just put your credit card on Facebook and then the transaction will happen.

So this is kind of crazy. Like now, you can actually do e-commerce without a website, without a shopping cart, without a payment gateway and all those types of things. You could just have it all basically go through messenger. They’re trying to own the whole thing from start to finish.

James: They’re trying to own the racecourse.

Dale: Exactly, yeah.

James: And Facebook, I mean let’s face it, companies like Facebook, and Apple, and Amazon, they’re doing a pretty good job at getting into our lives. But Facebook, in particular, they know everything about us. They know all of our friends; they know everything we do, everything we eat, where we go. It makes total sense. They’re taking on the messenger thing. They’re big on video; they’re great with their targeting. It’s so powerful because of all the data they have. And this payment thing, well I mean let’s get set for domination.

I think Facebook has such a legacy hold now and so much momentum. It really is the King Kong, and it seems to be rolling over people like Twitter. It’s going for Google as well you know, with the video and the searchability. Let’s see how strong they get in the end.

Dale: Yeah. They are being very aggressive. They’re trying to really own the internet. I think Facebook, I don’t know if it was said by Facebook or it’s been said by other observers, but basically, Facebook is in the business of keeping you on Facebook. It’s a whole job.

James: They’ve got really smart people sitting around, skimming how to keep that dopamine trigger, how to get you on there, how to retain your eyeballs. It takes a very disciplined entrepreneur to be able to stay away from Facebook and preserve your sanity and attention and time. That’s something that I’ve been involved with a lot is helping people get off that addiction.

Dale: Absolutely. It can become quite scary for people personally. But in terms of business, we have to skate to where the park is going to be. Facebook is already massively important to most people’s businesses, and it’s only going to become more important. So being able to look at chatbots or doing e-commerce as well or setting appointments and being able to do customer service, this is really the beginning.

And then from there, once you’ve built out your intelligence, then you can start where it will be in two years’ time. It’ll actually be voice activated as well. And I do believe that at some point, Facebook will morph into being a search engine as well, and you’ll be able to talk to Facebook and actually say, “Hey look, I want to build a new garden shed. Who do you recommend?” And then Facebook will be able to pull up ads, audio ads in the same way that it’s got ads on screen, they’ll also have ads being spoken as well.

So that’ll become part of Facebook’s world later on, and you’ll be able to say, “Hey, can you send that person a message,” it will open up messenger. All of this could be done with just a small earpiece in your ear. So yeah, it’s definitely changing.

But I want people to know that there are opportunities right here, right now, and there are clever marketers that are getting incredible ROI in terms of leads and also sales through the messenger platform as it stands right now. So you don’t have to wait three years of five years’ time to do something. You can actually do something now.

James: Right. And I guess these earpieces are going to have access to very fast internet or whatever the equivalent is at the time, and they’ll also probably translate between languages like some of the first earpieces that can do that apparently. It’s just phenomenal to think where we’re going. How far off do you think we are from just having an implant?

Dale: Yeah, look, I think that we’re probably maybe five years away from being able to technically be able to do it. But we might even be 10 years away before people are going to allow it to sort of happen. There are already people that have the ones for opening doors. But basically, they’ve been inserted under people’s skin. But I do think that it is almost like getting a tattoo. I think that a percentage of people will go for it, but there’ll be a lot of people that go, “Hey, this is body. You’re not touching it.” So it would be interesting to see where it goes.

Some of the tools you can use today

James: I think the main issue will be privacy, right? It’s not far off us being completely controlled, and tracked, and monitored, and so forth. Interesting. So the reality is there are changes coming. There’s nothing we can do about it to stop it. But we can certainly change the way we react to it. If we are in a marketing business related arena, then be aware that there are tools that you can use from now. There are chatbots you can take advantage of from today.

You mentioned wit.ia, api.ai, chatfuel.com. Have you had any experience with manychat.com?

Dale: Yeah, I have. Many Chat is quite good. You can build a bot through it. Chat Fuel probably has more features and capabilities. So but there’s also a couple of things that many chat can do as well. And there’s also other ones out there where you can actually integrate instantly with all platforms. So Chat Fuel is built mainly for messenger, but there are other ones out there that instantly go to Slack, instantly go to WeChat and also Kik and Telegram, which is another messaging platform that’s big in Russia and America as well. So yeah, you can go with ones that are instantly integrated as well.

James: And where are tools like if this then that or Zapier situated in the scheme of things? Are they onto these chats?

Dale: I think it won’t be long before they are. So you can actually send messages backwards and forwards between different systems. One of the things that we’re even talking to Chat Fuel about is with for example, this tour company that we’re working with when you go and ask questions like when do you want to travel, how many people are you traveling with, what’s your budget, and all these types of things, stores all those attributes within Chat Fuel. But what we want to be able to do is to create an API link from there to Ontraport or Infusionsoft or whatever CRM we’re using. So instantly then, we could have follow-up emails being sent that they perfectly match what the information someone has given us. So yeah, that’s some of the things that we’re looking at right now for our business owners.

What’s going on with BRiN

James: Nice. So at BRiN, are you building the platform or are you providing a service or some kind of hybrid?

Dale: Yes. So we realized when we looked at api.ai, wit.ai, if you’re going to be on someone else’s system, you can only move as fast as they can go. And oftentimes, they have so many different types of competing agendas. It’s very hard to get what you want, and oftentimes, you’re going to hit a brick wall, which we found very early on. The system wasn’t going to ever do this and ever going to do that and couldn’t do this. And so basically, we decided that we needed to roll our own system. So we started about 18 months ago building our own chat engine, which will enable us to build the world’s first artificial intelligent business adviser. So that’s what BRiN is, and the website is brin.ai if you want to check it out. It’s all free. We don’t make any money from recommendation. You can just go there and have a play.

James: What’s the play? is it to float it and sell it off for mega billions?

Dale: We’ll see. I think it really comes to creating a world-class product. That’s got to be the number one objective. And then, if it does end up helping people, then I would love to partner with a big company that has a global reach to then get it instantly into the hands of millions of people around the world. So the plan is just to create a world-class product right now. We’ve already got some incredible content in the app, and we’ve got some big features we’re rolling out over the next few months. People should just download it and just follow the journey and see where it goes.

James: Isn’t that funny? I found this tool before I knew that it was yours when I was searching the iTunes app store for business coaching because you’ll never guess what comes up high up in the rankings there for business coaching with the SuperFastBusiness app. This is really interesting, this confluence, because I’ve recognized that people want to access their coaching via an app. I’m doing it still the manual way with SuperFastBusiness, but I’ve decided last year that it’ll be great to be able to put my business coaching in someone’s pocket. To put it on an iPhone with its own access. I’ve provided direct one-to-one coaching from SuperFastBusiness on that app, which is for Apple and Android. And I saw your software there. So I guess, maybe mine’s the taxi and yours is the Uber, and there are things I could learn from this automation or technology that could be incorporated to enhance my business. So I think this is great timing. It’s early days. It’s certainly one to watch.

Possible first steps after hearing this podcast

If you were listening to this and you’re a typical business owner, let’s just say that you had an agency that was selling a service to customers, say they sell Facebook ads, or you had an e-commerce store that sold trampolines for example; I’m just picking a couple of random examples of a potential listener, how would you go about taking the first step after listening to this?

Dale: OK. So in terms of the agency one that you mentioned, I would recommend signing up for Chat Fuel, and I would then look at building a bot for your business.

Now, we have a client that actually does Facebook ads, and he’s already kind of done this, and it’s basically a bot that helps you decide, is Facebook ads right for my business? Because he gets a lot of people that ask him questions every single day, and he has this series of questions that he asks, and he basically says, “Yes, it’s right,” or “No, it’s not,” or “Yes, but you have to change these things.” So he’s had hundreds of those conversations. At the end of the day, 95 percent of those diagnostic questions are the same. So he’s now turned that into a bot, and he can now run ads on Facebook’s ad platform that say, “Considering Facebook ads, click here to find out if Facebook ads are right for your business.” It clicks there, then it goes, “Hey, I’m here to help.” I think he called that Facie is the name of it, “Hey, I’m Facie, and I’m here to help you find out whether Facebook ads work for your business. Please answer the following. Can I ask you a couple of questions?” “Yes.” And then it starts asking questions, and then it will basically say, “Yes, Facebook ads can help. Would you like a free half an hour chat so we could talk to you further.” And then you can put in all the details. It’s a lead capture form. Or it says, “Sorry, but Facebook ads will never work for you. Here’s a free book,” and send them on their way. He doesn’t have to waste valuable time on the phone. So that’s something that you could do here and now.

The other one, in terms of the trampoline, certainly it could just be a customer service bot that you could build on Chat Fuel that’ll just have commonly asked questions around trampolines, or you could actually build one for again, in terms of e-commerce.

James: Which trampoline is right for you? Like how big is your yard?

Dale: Yeah, how big is your yard? Like the diagnostic type thing. It would then make personal recommendations that you can say, “Out of everything you’ve told me, these are the two trampolines that are actually right for you. Would you like a free test drive or whatever your thing is, or have a free chat, or do you want to place an order now?” And then soon, you’ll literally be able to list where things are going. You could then just tap your thumbprint and you could have just ordered a trampoline just within three minutes of seeing an ad, answering a few questions, getting to the guts of it, even embedding videos in messenger now. So say, “Hey, do you want to watch a two-minute video to show you how this trampoline works?” “Yes.” And then it goes, “Great. Do you want to buy?” “Yes.” And if they don’t buy, then you’ve got permission to market to them the next day and say, “Hey, just wanted to check in about the trampoline. Are you still interested? Would you like someone to give you a call, put your number in, and then we’ll give you a call.” And you can operate this at scale worldwide. And then that way, your salespeople aren’t just spending all their time with the bottom feeders. They’re actually working with the people that actually are more likely to buy. So you get a much better return on your existing stuff by having these digital employees as I call them.

James: Wow, it’s just so straightforward. That’s a simple action that can be taken, and that’s a really good tip. Here we are in the chatbot revolution using that ability to leverage and automate something that you would do manually. A friend of mine, Dean Jackson, talks about that, where you can get some kind of an algorithm or an automation that you would do manually, if you’re going to do it manually, but you can replicate that with technology, then that’s a good move. So you’re right on top of it.

I think once again Dale; you’re maneuvering yourself where the puck’s going to be. It will be interesting to watch you and to stay in touch with that. I want to thank you on behalf of our audience and to wish you the best of luck with BRiN and see how that goes.

Last thoughts for the listener

In parting, is there one final thought or soundbite that you’d like to leave us with that will really bring this home about paying attention to the change in technology.

Dale: Yeah, I think for me, my soundbite would be this saying – you’re either green and growing, or you’re ripe and rotting. That’s kind of a question that you can ask yourself in terms of your business or the way you’re thinking about in approaching your business. Are you growing in terms of the way that you think, in terms of the way that you market, in terms of the products that you’re selling, the knowledge you have about your customers, where you think your industry is going; or have you just hit that point whereby you’re just doing the same old, same old thing year on year because business, it never stays the same. They say there are two certainties in life – death and taxes. Well, there’s a third, and that’s change. Nothing ever stays the same. I think you’re either evolving or you’re dying, and there’s no in between.

James: Wow. That’s so spot on. I’ve always said that if you want to master business, you’ve got to be a master of change. Because that’s the only thing that doesn’t change is change.

Dale: Exactly.

 
James: Thank you, Dale Beaumont, from BRiN.ai. Thank you so much.

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