Podcast: Download (Duration: 43:46 — 40.4MB)
Get Notified Of Future Episodes Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music | Android | Blubrry | TuneIn | Deezer | Anghami | RSS | More
Mario Peshev is a first-time guest on the podcast, but someone James chats with on a regular basis. James has huge respect for Mario’s expertise in online marketing and considers himself lucky to have read his recent book, MBA Disrupted.
James has invited Mario to talk about some of his work with startups and enterprise-level solutions at Devrix.com, especially in the realm of AI.
They’ll talk about how business owners can use AI to create marketing content.
They’ll discuss how AI marketing measures up against genuine human interaction.
And they’ll look at the advantages of old school marketing over AI-enhanced content marketing.
Table of contents:
1. What would have been an AI book
2. An interesting period to be in
3. What can you really count on AI to do?
4. Humans are the new premium
5. Human versus robot
6. When people want instant gratification
7. Educate people, provide value
8. Point summary
9. How many touch points do you need?
10. The time it takes to land a client
11. Top of mind but not pushy
12. An AI oversaturation point
13. A return to foundations
What would have been an AI book
James admires the depth and knowledge in Mario’s book, compared with many of today’s push-button offerings. Mario appreciates the compliments, and acknowledges that years of effort went into writing it.
Mario initially tried to create an AI-written book using tools like Jasper, ChatGPT, and Gemini. The results, though, left something to be desired. So instead, he utilized AI-generated outlines and structures as inspiration for the actual book.
Mario’s agency does many different things – marketing consultancy, WordPress, HubSpot, SEO, and AI. AI is one they press hard on, he says. They in fact created a custom, interactive GPT bot trained on his content, showing the extent of their AI adoption.
Mario believes it’s important to push AI’s capabilities and learn from its limitations. Some things it does well. Building a book, he’s found, isn’t one of them, just yet.
An interesting period to be in
James talks about the intersection between human creativity and AI. Major companies, for instance, like Apple and Adobe are incorporating AI into their products and seeking rights to user-generated content to train their machines.
What we have now is a transitional period, where the challenge is achieving perfect results with AI, as it lacks the subtle nuances and human touch required for truly impactful content.
James acknowledges the usefulness of AI tools for research, data processing, and creating frameworks, but stresses the importance of human expertise in refining and humanizing the output. While AI-generated content is becoming more prevalent, it often lacks quality and can be easily identified as being machine-made. Hence the need for human intervention to enhance and perfect AI-produced work.
What can you really count on AI to do?
James points out the potential of AI in coding and development, where some tools can generate working code based on user input. He cautions again, however, against over-reliance on AI for final outputs.
Mario agrees. He can recount instances where relying on AI have led to website outages and additional costs.
Human intervention is still needed to ensure high-quality outcomes with AI, particularly in areas requiring precision and reliability. You would not, for example, take legal advice or medical counsel from AI.
AI is a tool to enhance human capabilities rather than replace them. Mario believes in building genuine human relationships and leveraging AI for efficiency, while using a critical eye to ensure accuracy and relevance in the final outputs.
Humans are the new premium
James compares the resurgence of organic food as a premium product to the increasing value of human interaction in business. His own business still relies very much on human support and coaching, avoiding chatbots and automated tools for customer service.
James is critical of people touting AI as a way to run one-man businesses. Automated, templated interactions have yet to win over genuine human connections and personalized communication.
Human versus robot
James asks Mario about his process for building networks and relationships, especially given Mario’s location in Bulgaria and his global clientele. And. What does Mario think of the future of human interaction versus AI tools? Will humans continue to hold more value?
Mario agrees on the importance of human interaction. He’s had his own frustrations with generic pitches and guest post requests cluttering up his inbox. AI-generated templates, like some human-written material, tend to lack personalization and creativity.
Humans, says Mario, will always be necessary because unique and creative ideas stand out in a saturated market. Overusing AI tools leads to predictability and a loss of impact, as people quickly recognize and become wary of repetitive templates and frameworks.
When people want instant gratification
There’s a misplaced expectation of instant gratification in digital marketing and growth, says Mario. BDR teams have been a mainstay in large enterprises. And human sales expertise continues to make sense for high-value items like, say, cars.
James thinks that’s interesting. He actually much prefers online car selection and ordering, but hates self-checkout in supermarkets.
James points out that some seemingly automated services, like cashier-less shops, often rely on human oversight behind the scenes. Mario agrees – AI often requires more human intervention than anticipated, especially in content generation, where adapting AI-driven content can be more time-consuming than creating it from scratch.
Mario has it from an experienced SEO professional that pushy clients who insist on AI actually slow down processes. AI, when overused, can require additional human effort to correct its shortcomings, thus reducing efficiency rather than enhancing it.
Educate people, provide value
Mario believes strongly in educating potential clients and providing value before making a sale, advocating for a consultative approach to sales. He’s all for sharing expertise through podcasts, webinars, industry events, and publishing in-house data to build credibility and trust.
Mario’s agency introduced the concept of WordPress retainers in 2015 to combat the inefficiencies and frustrations of one-off projects. By promoting this model through various channels, they aimed to make the process smoother for clients and more profitable for agencies, encouraging others to adopt the same approach.
Mario stresses the need to think like a buyer, who seeks insights and knowledge from trustworthy sources rather than being pitched to. He advocates for building a reputation through educational content, use cases, comparison studies, and active participation in relevant communities to create a trusted persona.
By focusing on education and value, Mario believes that when potential customers are ready to buy, they will naturally gravitate towards those who have established themselves as reliable and knowledgeable experts in their field.
Point summary
It’s important, sums James, to start with a great product and generate high-quality case studies that showcase typical user experiences. Content marketing can be used to share insights and build trust through polished, human-finished content that potential customers can relate to.
Consistently sharing use cases and success stories, even anonymized ones, can build a strong reputation over time, making the buying decision easier for customers. James compares this process to test-driving a car, where potential buyers gauge if they relate to the use case and trust the product and company, ultimately leading to increased sales.
How many touch points do you need?
James notes Mario’s extensive use of various platforms – Slack groups, LinkedIn, speaking in person and podcasts – for building awareness and sharing valuable information. A lot of touch points in the buying cycle.
Mario explains that for high-value deals, such as seven-figure contracts, the process requires significantly more touch points than simpler transactions. Studies from companies like Microsoft and IBM have indicated the need for at least seven touch points, even decades ago.
In today’s fast-paced, attention-scarce environment, says Mario, it often takes over 20 touch points to reach potential customers, sometimes even exceeding 40. It takes consistent brand awareness and affinity-building, particularly in challenging economic times, to stay top of mind for customers.
The time it takes to land a client
Mario cites a 6Sense study indicating that the average buying cycle for products over $10K ARR in 2024 takes a year, with customers spending eight months on due diligence before contacting vendors. The first vendors they consider are typically those with strong brand presence through events, meetups, and referrals.
It’s important to be helpful and interesting without being pushy, like making a good first impression on a potential date. Building trust and providing value over time is essential, requiring a balance of psychological and emotional engagement to avoid being seen as the safe or boring option.
Mario uses his 20-year-old Gmail as a CRM to maintain a history of all communications, allowing him to understand potential clients better. The historical data helps him make informed decisions and avoid repeating past mistakes.
James adds that client acquisition can sometimes take years, recalling instances where clients took eight years to join his mentorship program.
Top of mind but not pushy
James relates to what Mario said , about being interesting and consistently posting content to stay top of mind without being pushy. He has a low opinion of marketers who bombard potential customers with excessive emails – tactics that often lead to unsubscribes and damaged trust.
Respect for audience’s time and needs is crucial, says James. He acknowledges the value of AI tools like ChatGPT, which he and his team uses, but underscores the necessity of genuine human interaction to stand out in an increasingly automated world.
An AI oversaturation point
Granted, says James, doing some things manually takes time. But having tried AI tools for content scraping, for instance, he and his team found that a manual processes was more effective and reliable. He believes that maintaining some manual methods is a sound long-term strategy.
Mario agrees – the digital space has reached or is nearing an oversaturation point with AI, pushing experienced professionals back to real-time, in-person interactions. He points out, too, that significant changes in user behavior during the pandemic and the rise of AI-generated content have led to a renewed appreciation for genuine human engagement.
Mario advises businesses to consider their buyers’ preferences, emphasizing that most people do not want to be bombarded with AI-generated sales pitches. Instead, he suggests engaging directly with clients to understand their needs better and provide more valuable services, a traditional approach that remains effective in building trust and long-term relationships.
A return to foundations
Mario has observed widespread fear and anxiety in 2024, due to recent global events like the pandemic, lockdowns, recessions, and inflation. He advises people to take a step back and return to foundational principles – being decent human beings who care about customers and team members.
Mario suggests, also, that current challenges present an opportunity to reset and rebuild business practices away from dependence on traditional SEO or PPC. He encourages focusing on genuine, helpful interactions and building a culture that aligns with core values, rather than chasing quick fixes or shiny objects.
James deeply appreciates the irreplaceable value of human experience, using his surfing videos as an example of something AI has yet to recreate. Humans, he says, will continue to outperform robots in creating meaningful connections.
James is grateful for Mario’s insights and the benefits of their collaborative discussions. And if you’d like to know more about Mario and what he does, you’ll find him at Devrix.com.
Enjoyed the show? Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts
Leave a Reply